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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 5:33 am 
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Location: Australia
Hi everyone, I am glad to be part of your forum. I am from Australia and don't speak Irish so please forgive my ignorance.
I have an interesting old irish saying that I would like help with. It is a long story, but one of the members of my family "Toby Ryan"wrote a book in 1894. He was born in Australia to an Irish convict father "John Ryan" and a mother "Mary Rope" whose parents were English First Fleeters. One of the stories Toby wrote about is when he and his father gave a bushranger "Grovener" a ride around 1830. As they rode along, Grovener's bushranger friends came out of the trees and he said "narboclish shinabockle" to them, and they went away. In the book Toby says he asked his father what it meant and his father said "never mind my boy".
I would like to know what it was, as it seemed to be some sort of secret code that Toby heard said a few times. Of course he did not speak Irish so it is no doubt spelt incorrectly.
I have looked at several translation sites and I wonder if the shinbockle is a version of "that ?? boys" (sin ?? bauchailli). The "narboclish" I am stumped on but I saw a site with an old saying about clever english "na Bearla cliste", so I thought it might be a shortening of that.
Has anybody ever heard of this saying? I would love any suggestions. Thanks very much.


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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 6:22 am 
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RosemaryR wrote:
Hi everyone, I am glad to be part of your forum. I am from Australia and don't speak Irish so please forgive my ignorance.
I have an interesting old irish saying that I would like help with. It is a long story, but one of the members of my family "Toby Ryan"wrote a book in 1894. He was born in Australia to an Irish convict father "John Ryan" and a mother "Mary Rope" whose parents were English First Fleeters. One of the stories Toby wrote about is when he and his father gave a bushranger "Grovener" a ride around 1830. As they rode along, Grovener's bushranger friends came out of the trees and he said "narboclish shinabockle" to them, and they went away. In the book Toby says he asked his father what it meant and his father said "never mind my boy".
I would like to know what it was, as it seemed to be some sort of secret code that Toby heard said a few times. Of course he did not speak Irish so it is no doubt spelt incorrectly.
I have looked at several translation sites and I wonder if the shinbockle is a version of "that ?? boys" (sin ?? bauchailli). The "narboclish" I am stumped on but I saw a site with an old saying about clever english "na Bearla cliste", so I thought it might be a shortening of that.
Has anybody ever heard of this saying? I would love any suggestions. Thanks very much.


Welcome to the forum, Rosemary.

It's not a "saying," really...just an expression.

"Ná bac le sin, a bhuachaill" would be the actual Irish spelling: "Don't be bothered by that, boy." "Never mind, my boy" would be a good, idiomatic, translation.

It would be an odd thing to say to a group of people, though, as it's clearly addressed to only one. Perhaps he was speaking to one person in the group?

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 7:05 am 
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Location: Australia
Thank you very much Redwolf. You have solved a long time mystery for us.
In our ignorance, people have writtten in Australian newspapers about the secret "call" of the bushrangers. It turns out to be nothing sinister at all.
I thought Toby's dad was just saying "never mind" in the way that I would to my son if he heard something that he shouldn't repeat. I never thought that it actually did mean "never mind my boy". I am happy to finally understand what it was.
I should explain that the bushrangers did approach the cart one at a time as they went down the highway, so that would explain why the response was addressed to a single person. Sorry about the confusion there.
Thanks very much for your help :D :D


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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 7:24 am 
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That would change the last word to bockle to wockle, I think, Redwolf.

I wonder if it might not have been:

ná bac leis, sin an buachaill naw BUCK lesh SHIN uh BOO-khwil "Don't bother (with it), "'atta boy" or "That's a good boy" or "That's my boy."

As Redwolf said it would be singular, perhaps addressed to the leader of the group.

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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 2:34 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Breandán wrote:
That would change the last word to bockle to wockle, I think, Redwolf.

I wonder if it might not have been:

ná bac leis, sin an buachaill naw BUCK lesh SHIN uh BOO-khwil "Don't bother (with it), "'atta boy" or "That's a good boy" or "That's my boy."

As Redwolf said it would be singular, perhaps addressed to the leader of the group.


It would normally be pronounced as a "w," yes...but take into account how the language tends to morph when only certain phrases are adopted by non-Irish speakers. For example, in songs that are otherwise in English, "mo bhuachaill" often gets rendered as "me bookle" (as in "The Rising of the Moon"). It's very likely that the sentence became mangled by people whose Irish was minimal.

Six on the one hand, half dozen on the other, I suppose.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 4:30 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
That would change the last word to bockle to wockle, I think, Redwolf.

I wonder if it might not have been:

ná bac leis, sin an buachaill naw BUCK lesh SHIN uh BOO-khwil "Don't bother (with it), "'atta boy" or "That's a good boy" or "That's my boy."



Most likely that.

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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 7:20 am 
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Joined: Wed 14 Mar 2012 8:05 am
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Location: Australia
Thanks everyone for your help.
Thank you Breandán for the pronunciation. I can really see how the words would have been heard and therefore spelt by Toby. :GRMA:


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