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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 5:28 pm 
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There are basically three types of Welsh (although in reality there a lot more because there are various levels of literary and spoken Welsh is different again); literary, formal and familiar. You would use formal speech (chi) with people you don't know, those who are older than you or for the indefinite 'you'. And it is considered a sign of respect to do so. There are some people who get very offened if you use 'ti' with them unless you know them VERY well. So better safe than sorry - use 'chi' if in doubt. So for Redwolf's example, if I were asking someone orally, I would say 'Dych chi'n siarad Gweddeleg'. Proper written Welsh would likely require a more formal approach in writing so Ydych chi'n siarad Gweddeleg would be best. That, by the way, is not literary Welsh. Literary Welsh would be Yr ydych yn siarad Gweddeleg.

On the forum you would use the familiar (Wyt ti'n siarad Gweddeleg?).

Also with friends and friends of friends that you are just meeting, you would use the informal because they are the friends of people you know. So the people you know would be introducing you and that makes the whole thing an informal event.

Literary Welsh is very formal and helps to shorten the language. So we do use it in text messages with friends because you can write: Siaradaf y Gymraeg â'm mhartner instead of Dw i'n siarad y Gymraeg â fy mhartner. (I am speaking Welsh with my partner.) And yes, Bríd is right, literary Welsh is nearly a different language, has some different rules and very hard to learn.

In a way you do use some literary forms in speech because many of the literary forms of the verbs are simply conjugations and conjugated verbs are definitely used in speech. For example, I would be more likely to say hoffwn goffi (I would like coffee.) than I would be to say byddwn i'n hoffi coffi. Same meaning, just a different way to say it. Hoffwn is the conjugated conditional form of the verb hoffi (to like). So the verb becomes 'I would like'. Again, there is no pronoun needed either in writing or speech because the 'wn' ending on the verb tells you which person it is. Conjugated verbs cause mutation on the following word. You'll notice I mutated coffi to goffi after hoffwn.

That all being said, often part of bod (to be) is cut off in spoken Welsh anyway and only the pronoun used...... ti'n hapus heddiw? as opposed to wyt ti'n hapus heddiw? Or ti iawn? instead of wyt ti'n iawn?

So it's kind of mixed. But as a rule, he's right - literary is used just for written Welsh and you would never say 'hwy' - people would laugh you off the planet I think. :yes:

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 5:39 pm 
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Iawn, diolch yn fawr...
Fe weles i y ysgrifennest ti "Gweddeleg" ond fe weles i "Gwyddeleg" (gyda Y) mewn llyfrau... Typo nest ti, neu...?

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 7:22 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
My mother remembered when people used "sibh" when talking to a priest.


From 'Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí': "Iolra an fhorainmnigh a úsáidtear go minic ag caint le heaglaiseach. 'Iolra an ómóis' a thugtar air: Dia dhaoibh, a athair; conas tá sibh, a athair? fanaigí anseo, mas é bhur dtoil é, a shagairt

Some say there's less of the oul' ómós around these days. I can't think why.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 7:41 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Iawn, diolch yn fawr...
Fe weles i y ysgrifennest ti "Gweddeleg" ond fe weles i "Gwyddeleg" (gyda Y) mewn llyfrau... Typo nest ti, neu...?

Yes, Lughaidh. It's a typo. She had it correct originally above. :yes: "... bwrw allan yn gyntaf y trawst o’th lygad dy hun; ac yna y gweli’n eglur fwrw y brycheuyn allan o lygad dy frawd."

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 8:15 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
My mother remembered when people used "sibh" when talking to a priest.


From 'Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí': "Iolra an fhorainmnigh a úsáidtear go minic ag caint le heaglaiseach. 'Iolra an ómóis' a thugtar air: Dia dhaoibh, a athair; conas tá sibh, a athair? fanaigí anseo, mas é bhur dtoil é, a shagairt

Some say there's less of the oul' ómós around these days. I can't think why.


That would explain the songs I'm thinking of then...in those cases, the "sibh" is used in reference to Christ (I imagine what's sauce for the priest is sauce for the deity, to really mangle a metaphor!)

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 9:44 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Iawn, diolch yn fawr...
Fe weles i y ysgrifennest ti "Gweddeleg" ond fe weles i "Gwyddeleg" (gyda Y) mewn llyfrau... Typo nest ti, neu...?


Croeso mawr. Ydy - typo yw hi. Sori ro'n i'n rhuthro bore 'ma. :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 9:58 pm 
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Very interesting Peggi, diolch yn fawr.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 11:10 pm 
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Croeso Bríd. :D

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