I would think if you didn't know someone well enough to know if they could speak Welsh, then you would probably still be on formal terms with them, wouldn't you?

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

But then maybe it is enough to use the formal pronoun "chi" but not the formal verbal forms? Aren't they unnatural for everyday speech? I read somewhere that "literary Welsh" sounded strange and even funny when used to talk to people except in speeches etc...

Maybe "dych chi'n siarad Cymraeg" is enough then? Let's wait for Pegi's opinion...

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

I heard that "literary Welsh" is almost like a seperate language. Nobody speaks that way anymore.


I don't imagine that the Welsh and the Scots Gaelic people are sticklers for formality anymore. It will die out like it did in Irish eventually.
Unlike European languages like German, where if you "du bist" somebody without permission you are in trouble.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________

I think Pegi was only giving the literary forms for reference.

Colloquial Welsh gives (Y)dych chi'n siarad Cymraeg?.

Pegi already gave dych chi'n siarad ... above "if you were speaking".

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Aye, literary Welsh is very different from spoken Welsh, especially in grammar. I may be mistaken but I think the only times you'd pronounce literary Welsh, is when you read some written speech or something like that. I read somewhere that when you use the formal pronoun "hwy" (or "hwynt", which are "nhw" in spoken Welsh) in everyday speech it makes people laugh

In Scottish Gaelic it's different, there's no "formal grammar", you just use "sibh" instead of "thu" when you talk to someone you don't know well, or your boss or some older person you don't know, it's like in French with "vous" or in Welsh with "chi".

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

About when did the formal vs. informal "you" disappear in Irish, do you know? I wonder because I've run across some Irish songs that use "sibh" when I would normally expect them to use "tú."

Redwolf

An dtabharfá somplaí dúinn?

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

That's interesting; I didn't know there was a formal/informal version of the language.

_________________

My mother remembered when people used "sibh" when talking to a priest.
But it had stopped being used to any other VIP at the time.

I asked her why, she said she thought it was because he had the communion with him, which made it plural. Obviously she didn't know it was a form of grammar. It wasn't til much later that I found out, I don't remember being taught that in school.



I'd really like to learn Welsh. To be conversational at least. But infomation just doesn't stay in my head anymore.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________

That is really interesting. It seems such a peculiar idea to me about having to decide who should be treated as a 'VIP' and who shouldn't. It could lead to taking a few people down a peg or two. I'm quite warming to the idea......

_________________