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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2024 1:05 pm 
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I asked google to translate:
"not either, but as a captain of the Lord's of heavens armies I have come"

And I got:
"ní ceachtar acu, ach mar chaptaen ar airm Thiarna na bhflaitheas tháinig mé"

Looks pretty solid to me, but I just wanted to double check here. I wasn't thrilled with the translation of this part of Joshua 5:13-14(ish) from the ABN or Bedell bible, which are what I usually look at.

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2024 2:46 pm 
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Location: Corcaigh
msv133 wrote:
I asked google to translate:
"not either, but as a captain of the Lord's of heavens armies I have come"

And I got:
"ní ceachtar acu, ach mar chaptaen ar airm Thiarna na bhflaitheas tháinig mé"

Looks pretty solid to me, but I just wanted to double check here. I wasn't thrilled with the translation of this part of Joshua 5:13-14(ish) from the ABN or Bedell bible, which are what I usually look at.

Thank you!


It did poorly. But that's not unreasonable, because the English is also problematic. It's not a complete phrase, and some contextual information is missing as a result. The opening "not either" is meaningless out of context. I have to assume the intended meaning here is "I am not here as either" which simply is not implied by "not either" in isolation. Aside from this, "Lord's of heavens" seem's very odd to me as a phrase. I think what is intended is "...as a captain of armies of the Lord of heavens...", but I can't be sure.

As for Google's translation:

ní ceachtar acu = "it is not either of them". Not an unreasonable translation given what I've mentioned about the original English, but I think not correct given the context available from the rest of the piece being translated.

Also, mar chaptaen ar airm Thiarna na bhflaitheas tháinig mé is a mess. Firstly, it needs a copula and a relative particle, is mar chaptaen ... a tháinig mé "it is as a captain ... that I came". Secondly, I don't see why ar should be used in the segment mar chaptaen ar airm, when it seems like it should be a genitival construction. The genitive plural form on its own, mar chaptaen arm "as a captain of the armies", is sufficient, but I think the phrasing in the English confused the translator by splitting "armies" from "Lord's".

What was wrong with the translations you found in ABN and Bedell?


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2024 2:59 pm 
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Bedell:
Agus a dubhairt seision, Ní headh; achd már chaiptín do shlúagh an TIGHEARNA tháinic mé a nois.

"achd már chaiptín do shlúagh"
looks like Captain of the Lord's people. I feel like this isn't quite right, because the Hebrews ARE the Lord's people, where the angel is meaning to say "Heavens Armies"

"tháinic mé a nois"
This looks like I came to his, because of the particle a before nois. I feel like ""tháinic mé anois" would make more sense in order to translate to "I came now"

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ABN:
Dʼfhreagair sé: “É seo eile,” ar sé, “is mé captaen arm an Tiarna. Táim ag teacht anois...”

"Táim ag teacht anois"
Putting ag infront of a verb is like adding an "ing" in English; Thus this looks like "I am coming now".
But the angel is already there, he has come, he came, he's not coming. "I am coming now" as it's own sentence seems a bit off from any English translation I can find.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2024 3:49 pm 
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msv133 wrote:
Bedell:
Agus a dubhairt seision, Ní headh; achd már chaiptín do shlúagh an TIGHEARNA tháinic mé a nois.


This looks fine to me.

msv133 wrote:
"achd már chaiptín do shlúagh"
looks like Captain of the Lord's people. I feel like this isn't quite right, because the Hebrews ARE the Lord's people, where the angel is meaning to say "Heavens Armies"


slúagh (modern spelling slua) means a host or army. The meaning "crowd of people" is an extension of this, but the word does not mean "people" in the sense you're suggesting.

msv133 wrote:
"tháinic mé a nois"
This looks like I came to his, because of the particle a before nois. I feel like ""tháinic mé anois" would make more sense in order to translate to "I came now"


It does say tháinic mé anois, a nois is the same as anois, it's just older orthography. It's from Old Irish indossa/indassa (ind + foss + sa), and equates to a-nis in Scottish Gaelic. The a is not the masculine possessive pronoun. That would make no sense.

msv133 wrote:
___________________
ABN:
Dʼfhreagair sé: “É seo eile,” ar sé, “is mé captaen arm an Tiarna. Táim ag teacht anois...”


This also looks fine to me

msv133 wrote:
"Táim ag teacht anois"
Putting ag infront of a verb is like adding an "ing" in English; Thus this looks like "I am coming now".
But the angel is already there, he has come, he came, he's not coming. "I am coming now" as it's own sentence seems a bit off from any English translation I can find.


On a grammatical note, strictly speaking, teacht is a verbal noun, not a verb. But, yes, it means "I am coming now", and this is closer to the original Latin than the English translation you're referring to, hence, it is more accurate:

Nequaquam: sed sum princeps exercitus Domini, et nunc venio.
"Not at all, but I am a prince of the host of the Lord, and now I come."

A closer translation would be agus tagaim anois "and now I come", however, in the context of Joshua 5, it's fine to say "I am coming" because he was indeed "coming" with a message which he had not yet delivered. If I was sent to deliver a message to somebody, on seeing that person I might announce "I am coming with a message for you", and even though I had already arrived to them, that turn of phrase would be acceptable in that context.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Oct 2024 5:02 pm 
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Thank you so much for the great response! I appreciate it more than you know. Mol Dia!!!


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