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PostPosted: Tue 08 Aug 2023 1:07 am 
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I have a question. Can you combine words in Irish and if so, is that why some words have apostrophes, or are those words just spelled that way?


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PostPosted: Tue 08 Aug 2023 1:29 am 
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Pearl wrote:
I have a question. Can you combine words in Irish and if so, is that why some words have apostrophes, or are those words just spelled that way?


Yes, some words can be combined in Irish using an apostrophe. This occurs where the combination of those words results in an abbreviation of one or both words. For example d'fhilleadh is a combination of do + filleadh.

Keep in mind that there are a limited number of word combinations which will result in this kind of abbreviation, and not all or even many Irish words can combine in this manner.


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PostPosted: Tue 08 Aug 2023 1:49 am 
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I knew I had a hunch! I wondered why I couldn't find some words in the dictionary and only parts of the words would show up.


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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug 2023 2:42 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Ade wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Pearl wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Tair thar n-ais, fíll chúm,
a pheidhleacáin bhig,
go raibh slí abhaile aimsithe agat.


Djwebb2021, can you explain the changes you made to me, please?


It's Munster Irish, but you wanted the Standardised Irish. Féileacán is peidhleacán in Munster.


This is probably West Muskerry rather than more broadly Munster, no?

In any case, I don't think there's any reason to change bealach to slí for dialectal reasons. Bealach is widely used in Munster, and forms well understood set phrases like bealach isteach/amach "entrance/exit", bealach éalaithe "escape route", and bealach mór "highway". Unless this change was just an artistic flourish?


Well, Gaeilge Chorca Duibhne shows peidhleacán too (section 853), as does the pronunciation file on teanglann.ie, so I think peidhleacán is correct for Munster. I don't know about Waterford, so it may be West Munster (at least).

Bealach is hardly ever found in Muskerry literature, apart from placenames. I don't know where you're getting "escape route" and the like from. These are probably CO words, even if you've seen them pasted up in Munster. What's the evidence that this is Gaeltacht Irish anywhere in Munster? Slí amach and bóthar mór make more sense. There are bound to be Munster authors who use CO words, but as far as I know, bealach is used in non-Munster dialects.


My resource books for "Eastern" Munster dialects (Decies, Ring, etc.) are lacking in a lot of local vocabulary ("peidhleacán" being one example so I can't comment on it and my speaking source doesn't know - he says they use "butterfly". :) ). But in all three resources (Sean-chaint na ndéise I and II, and The Irish of Ring, Co. Waterford) there is no mention of "bealach" at all. "Slí" seems to be the preferred term although in set phrases and influence from "the standard" language, "bealach" may be used as Ade points out above. The speakers I know are fully aware of the use and meaning of this word. I don't have any idea whether they use it or not on a daily basis.

The entries as shown in the texts:

A. Sean-chaint na nDéise I, p. 18 - referenced in an idiom "as a' tslighe" -

Tóg cáiliúileacht agus ná bí go múr as a' tslighe (or "clí"). Take what is reasonable (of drink), and do not go to violent excess (do not be very wrong - as a' tslighe, may be applied to any form of moral error).

B. Seana-chaint na nDéise II, p. 362 [many examples of uses meaning "way, road, etc." I can post the examples if someone wants to see them all. - Tiom]

C. The Irish of Ring, Co. Waterford, paragraphs 21, 180, 242, 490, 533. These are pronunciation examples that seem fairly "standard". The last one in para. 533 is interesting: palatal "sh" sometimes > ç in the group "shl", e.g. a shlighe ə çli. "slighidh" is also given in paragraphs 150 and 243 in the phrase "san tslighidh" sə t'l'i but no meaning is given. (in the way? in the road? idiomatic, figurative?)

In any case, Pearl can choose whichever version he thinks fits his purpose.


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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug 2023 3:24 am 
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There is also this from Michael Sheehan for Waterford Irish: https://archive.org/details/cncoilleadh ... 8/mode/2up


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Aug 2023 11:45 pm 
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I had to change the melody, again. I've been procrastinating, but I'm back.

New lyrics:

I cry meaningless dreams.
Dreams that will never come.
Yet, I still hope for a fate with you.
Torn, shattered, and corrupted is all I am.
I plead hopeless wishes.
Wishes that will never come true.
Yet, I still dream of a new beginning.
In this collapsing world, is there anything to return to?


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug 2023 1:08 am 
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Location: Corcaigh
Pearl wrote:
I had to change the melody, again. I've been procrastinating, but I'm back.

New lyrics:

I cry meaningless dreams.
Dreams that will never come.
Yet, I still hope for a fate with you.
Torn, shattered, and corrupted is all I am.
I plead hopeless wishes.
Wishes that will never come true.
Yet, I still dream of a new beginning.
In this collapsing world, is there anything to return to?


Your lyrics are getting to be a bit more abstract, and consequently more difficult to translate. You may want to rethink some of these lines and expressions, whether they even make much sense in English. For example, does one really "cry dreams"? Or, does one really "plead wishes"?

"Hoping for a fate with someone" also reads a bit strangely. Generally people talk about being fated to be with someone, but not to "have a fate with" someone. It almost implies that a person could have more than one fate, though any possibility of a plurality of fates would be an oxymoron as fate, by definition, requires only a single predetermined outcome which will happen. In other words, you can't have "a fate", but you could instead refer just to "fate" on its own, or to "my fate", "your fate", etc.

"Torn", "shattered" and "corrupted" are very expressive adjectives, but they're obviously intended metaphorically here and it's not entirely clear what the metaphor is referring to. Without more context than you've given so far in your lyrics it's going to be difficult to give you anything other than direct translations for these words. In other words, we could translate "torn" in the sense that a piece of paper or fabric could be torn, likewise "shattered" like a glass, but what I think you actually want to express here is something like "I'm really sad". "Corrupted" is even tougher to translate because people don't usually refer to themselves as "corrupt" to express sadness. The word is sometimes used to refer to somebody who does bad things because of greed, or it can be used in a biblical sense to describe someone who has doomed themselves by sinning. In a modern computing context it could refer to files which have become damaged or degraded by some means or process. But, I don't think any of these are what you actually trying to express.

Maybe you can have a think about what you really want to say here and let us know more clearly. That would make it easier for us to help you.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Aug 2023 3:12 am 
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Ok, I've re-written some of the words. I'll keep it more literal from now on. I apologize for the inconvenience.

New lyrics:

I have many memories.
Memories that I'm afraid I'll forget.
Tears pour from my eyes.
I have many wishes.
Wishes that will never come true.
Yet, I still wish for a new start.
As time passes, will there be anything to return to?


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PostPosted: Tue 15 Aug 2023 8:22 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
There is also this from Michael Sheehan for Waterford Irish: https://archive.org/details/cncoilleadhcra00sheeuoft/page/108/mode/2up

Wow, I've been looking for this book. Pretty good quality for a book from 1917. And lots of options for downloading. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue 15 Aug 2023 8:30 am 
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Ade wrote:

"Hoping for a fate with someone" also reads a bit strangely. Generally people talk about being fated to be with someone, but not to "have a fate with" someone. It almost implies that a person could have more than one fate, though any possibility of a plurality of fates would be an oxymoron as fate, by definition, requires only a single predetermined outcome which will happen. In other words, you can't have "a fate", but you could instead refer just to "fate" on its own, or to "my fate", "your fate", etc.


I disagree with that. I like the idea that a person can have multiple fates. And only he chooses which one to follow. I think it creates some opportunity to avoid a fatalistic view of life.
After all, this is a lyric, not a science. Let there be multiple fates, why not? :)

Other than that, you made a good point.


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