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PostPosted: Sat 02 Jan 2021 12:43 am 
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Hi All. I'm currently going through some examples in "The Irish of Iorras Aithneach, County Galway, Volume 2" and I would like to ask for help translating some copula examples please. The link is here: https://www.dias.ie/wp-content/uploads/ ... lume_2.pdf

What does "Is tigh liom" mean? Does it mean the same as "Tigh liom" and if so, why is the copula dropped?

"fearr occurs with numerals seacht, céad, míle, seacht míle, etc. The numeral can
act as a direct qualifier of fearr or as independent adverbial followed by direct
relative copula"

How do the direct qualifiers correspond to seacht, céad, míle etc.?

What do the following translate to:

- ba sheacht fearr
- céad fearr: Is céad fearr liom é
- míle fearr: Is mhíle fearr liom é sin

Could anyone also provide a translation for the following examples please? If there are any words phonetically spelled as opposed to correctly spelled or if a copula is omitted somewhere, please do tell me as I'll benefit greatly from it.

a) is eod orchar ó Dhiarmaid Donn, mar sé nar chlis ariamh
Assuming 'is eod' is 'is eo'?
b) Uise a Mhaighdean nach breá tirim iad!
I can't really find anything on 'uise'?
c) Duine a mbeadh fiacla maithe aige is an-mhilis iad le n-ithe
d) Bean a bhí sa váird in éineacht le Seán agus thugadar fuisce dhi.
'váird' is an example I'm assuming is phonetically spelled as opposed to correctly spelled as 'v' doesn't traditionally exist in the Irish alphabet.
e) Mise nach mbeadh i bhfad a’ déanamh na hoibre sin, ar seisean, dá ligtheá
dhom!
Why does the sentence begin with 'mise' - is there a copula omitted?
f) gurb iad a bhfuil an saol mar tá sé acub
is acub meant to be 'acu'?
g) "Fronting of phrase governed by ‘stranded’ preposition:
Chaon cheann dhen iomaire, arb as a leasaídís, na hiomaireacha. ‘It is
from each end of the (potato) ridge that they used to fertilise the ridges.’ "
What does it mean by stranded preposition?
h) "The preposition as is repeated in:
As taobh thall dhe chuan b’as iad sin, as Leitir Miulláin."


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PostPosted: Sat 02 Jan 2021 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
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ailig_ab wrote:
Hi All. I'm currently going through some examples in "The Irish of Iorras Aithneach, County Galway, Volume 2" and I would like to ask for help translating some copula examples please. The link is here: https://www.dias.ie/wp-content/uploads/ ... lume_2.pdf

What does "Is tigh liom" mean? Does it mean the same as "Tigh liom" and if so, why is the copula dropped?


I cannot find "Is tigh liom" there.
Do you mean tig liom, 5.377?
"Tig liom", "I can", is normally/etymologically the present tense verb form tig (< tagann, "comes", tar, "come") plus "liom", "X comes with me" > "I can X"
But it's an idiom and as such it is not understood anymore as a present tense verb form (which is rather "teagann" in the dialect today) and so it is seen as a copula phrase (as other modals are):
Is tig liom, lit. "is tig with me", "tig" without real meaning then, just equivalent to féidir in "is féidir liom".
So, you can use both in the dialect: Tig liom (etymologically correct) and Is tig liom (the re-definition in the dialect). (and perhaps: Tiocfadh liom besides Ba thig liom)

Quote:
"fearr occurs with numerals seacht, céad, míle, seacht míle, etc. The numeral can
act as a direct qualifier of fearr or as independent adverbial followed by direct
relative copula"

How do the direct qualifiers correspond to seacht, céad, míle etc.?

What do the following translate to:
- ba sheacht fearr
- céad fearr: Is céad fearr liom é
- míle fearr: Is mhíle fearr liom é sin


(ba) s(h)eacht fearr = (it was) seven times better / much better
céad fearr = a hundred times better / very much better
Is céad fearr liom é = it is a hundred times better in my opinion / I prefer it a lot,
míle fearr = a thousend times better / ...
seacht míle fearr = seven thousend times better / ...
Is míle fearr liom é sin = That is a thousand times better in my opinion. / I prefer it a lot lot more.

Quote:
Could anyone also provide a translation for the following examples please? If there are any words phonetically spelled as opposed to correctly spelled or if a copula is omitted somewhere, please do tell me as I'll benefit greatly from it.

a) is eod orchar ó Dhiarmaid Donn, mar sé nar chlis ariamh
Assuming 'is eod' is 'is eo'?


Yes. Is eod = Seod = Seo = This is ...
Is eod orchar = Seo urchar = This is a shot ...
This is a shot from D. D., because it is he, who never failed.

Quote:
b) Uise a Mhaighdean nach breá tirim iad!
I can't really find anything on 'uise'?


uise = m(h)uise = indeed
Indeed, o Virgin, aren't they fine and dry!

Quote:
c) Duine a mbeadh fiacla maithe aige is an-mhilis iad le n-ithe


They'd be very sweet to eat for someone with good teeth.

Quote:
d) Bean a bhí sa váird in éineacht le Seán agus thugadar fuisce dhi.
'váird' is an example I'm assuming is phonetically spelled as opposed to correctly spelled as 'v' doesn't traditionally exist in the Irish alphabet.


váird = ward, obviously.
A woman was together with Seán in the ward and she was given Whiskey.

Quote:
e) Mise nach mbeadh i bhfad a’ déanamh na hoibre sin, ar seisean, dá ligtheá
dhom!
Why does the sentence begin with 'mise' - is there a copula omitted?


The heading is "fronting", so, yes, a copula is omitted.
I myself wouldn't be far from doing that work, he said, if you'd let me.

Quote:
f) gurb iad a bhfuil an saol mar tá sé acub
is acub meant to be 'acu'?


Yes, there's a -b in 3rd person plural prepositional pronouns in Conamara.
acub = acu, orthub = orthu, etc.
= that it's them who have the life as it is.

Quote:
g) "Fronting of phrase governed by ‘stranded’ preposition:
Chaon cheann dhen iomaire, arb as a leasaídís, na hiomaireacha. ‘It is
from each end of the (potato) ridge that they used to fertilise the ridges.’ "
What does it mean by stranded preposition?


It is each end of the ridge, from which it is, that they used to fertilise the ridges.

"stranded", a linguistic term, = seperated from (... a noun).
In "the bag I put it in", "in" is "stranded" (in contrast to: "I put it in the bag")

(BTW: Stranding in Irish prepositions uses always 3rd person prepositional forms, here: as = out of it.)

Quote:
h) "The preposition as is repeated in:
As taobh thall dhe chuan b’as iad sin, as Leitir Miulláin."


lit.: From the far side of the bay, those were from it, from L.M.


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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan 2021 1:05 am 
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Joined: Sat 15 Dec 2018 1:32 am
Posts: 30
Thank you very much for your help with this Labhrás.

For (c) Duine a mbeadh fiacla maithe aige is an-mhilis iad le n-ithe

Is the "is" in this meaning "and" rather than a copula? And why the inclusion of the pronoun "iad"?

Based on the translation of (f), could I say "gurb iad a bhfuil an saol acub mar tá sé" i.e. by moving the acub in closer? And if not, why not?

For (g), "Chaon cheann dhen iomaire, arb as a leasaídís, na hiomaireacha".

Quote:
"stranded", a linguistic term, = seperated from (... a noun).
In "the bag I put it in", "in" is "stranded" (in contrast to: "I put it in the bag")


How would the sentence look without being fronted? e.g. leasaídís na hiomaireacha as chaon cheann dhen iomaire?


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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan 2021 8:42 am 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1421
ailig_ab wrote:
Thank you very much for your help with this Labhrás.

For (c) Duine a mbeadh fiacla maithe aige is an-mhilis iad le n-ithe

Is the "is" in this meaning "and" rather than a copula? And why the inclusion of the pronoun "iad"?


I thought it's the copula but "agus" makes perhaps even more sense.
Iad = the things to be eaten

Quote:
Based on the translation of (f), could I say "gurb iad a bhfuil an saol acub mar tá sé" i.e. by moving the acub in closer? And if not, why not?


Yes, I'd think so.

Quote:
For (g), "Chaon cheann dhen iomaire, arb as a leasaídís, na hiomaireacha".

How would the sentence look without being fronted? e.g. leasaídís na hiomaireacha as chaon cheann dhen iomaire?


Yes, go díreach.


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PostPosted: Fri 08 Jan 2021 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 636
Labhrás wrote:
ailig_ab wrote:

For (c) Duine a mbeadh fiacla maithe aige is an-mhilis iad le n-ithe

Is the "is" in this meaning "and" rather than a copula? And why the inclusion of the pronoun "iad"?


I thought it's the copula but "agus" makes perhaps even more sense.
Iad = the things to be eaten


But if is meant agus wouldn't the order be is iad an-mhilis le n-ithe? And iad would then appear to be referring to fiacla maithe, which is obviously not the case. Copula it must be :D


Quote:
Quote:
Mise nach mbeadh i bhfad a' déanamh na hoibre sin...

I myself wouldn't be far from doing that work...


>I myself wouldn't be long doing that work


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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jan 2021 2:54 am 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1421
Errigal wrote:

But if is meant agus wouldn't the order be is iad an-mhilis le n-ithe? And iad would then appear to be referring to fiacla maithe, which is obviously not the case. Copula it must be :D


Good point. Yes, it must be the copula.

I shouldn't be so suggestable. :)


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