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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 5:11 pm 
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Hey folks, anyone able to shed some light on Tugaim/Bheirim/Tabhraim and in what manner each of the variations would be used ?

míle buíochas

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tabhair

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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 6:07 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
Hey folks, anyone able to shed some light on Tugaim/Bheirim/Tabhraim and in what manner each of the variations would be used ?

míle buíochas

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tabhair

Only tugaim is used these days, you'll see bheirim in older literature from Munster. Tabhraim, I'll have to check how much it's in books, but it'd be very rare, it was the form in the 18th century.

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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 6:14 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
Hey folks, anyone able to shed some light on Tugaim/Bheirim/Tabhraim and in what manner each of the variations would be used ?

míle buíochas

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tabhair


In Standard Irish there is only:
Tugaim = I give (ní thugaim = I don't give, go dtugaim = that I give, etc.)

In the older language there was
thabhraim = I don't give;
go dtabhraim = that I give
tabhraim = that I don't give
(i.e. tabhraim is a dependent form)
and
Bheirim (< Do-bheirim) = I give
(i.e. an independent form)

In some dialects you can still find these forms (at least bheirim).
Tabhraim/tabhrann I found at least in works of Dónall Ó Baoill.


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 7:54 pm 
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In Ulster Irish, people say "bheirim" and "cha dtabhraim"...
One should also remember that "bheirim" comes from "do-bheirim", and "tabhraim" is also "do-bheirim" in its dependent form.

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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 8:54 pm 
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Thanks a million for that. Just to clarify a dependent form is a verb form that comes with something like ní or an , and go? mar shampla "Ní rabhas"

And an independent is when its is used without soemthing before it , i.e Bhíos ?

If its unlikely I will hear it ill move it down the list of things to learn.

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PostPosted: Sun 23 Apr 2017 11:21 pm 
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Quote:
Just to clarify a dependent form is a verb form that comes with something like ní or an , and go? mar shampla "Ní rabhas"


yes, after ní, nach, go, an, a (independent relative), sula, mura...

Quote:
And an independent is when its is used without soemthing before it , i.e Bhíos ?


yes, and after "a" (dependent relative - when you don't use the relative ending of the verb : a bhíonns etc), and after "má"...

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr 2017 2:59 am 
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An interesting historical note: beir in its meaning of "take" made its way in translation into Ulster Scots (or possibly earlier into Broad Scots from Gaelic), and then came to America, being preserved in still common expressions in the South such as "I carried her home" (rather than "I took her home"). One of a number of expressions brought to the South by Ulster Scots immigrants in translation, another being expressions such as "There's not but three of them", rather than "There are only three of them", a nearly direct translation from Irish or Gaelic.

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