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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017 2:29 am 
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Dia dhaoibh,

I'm working through Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish" and have a question about one of the translation exercises from Lesson 4. Exercise 6 asks you to translate "There is good Irish here. There is no college at all." My attempt was "Tá Gaeilge mhaith anseo. Níl coláiste ann ar chor ar bith."

He writes that the correct answer should be "...Níl coláiste ar bith anseo ar chor ar bith." I do not understand why he includes "ar bith" nor why he uses "anseo." Is "ar bith" added for emphasis - as in to stress that there are no colleges whatsoever? Is anseo used in the second sentence because it was in the first, maintaining some sort of continuity between the two since you are clearly talking about the same place?

Go raibh maith agaibh,
Harrison


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017 10:56 am 
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Harrison wrote:
Dia dhaoibh,

I'm working through Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish" and have a question about one of the translation exercises from Lesson 4. Exercise 6 asks you to translate "There is good Irish here. There is no college at all." My attempt was "Tá Gaeilge mhaith anseo. Níl coláiste ann ar chor ar bith."

He writes that the correct answer should be "...Níl coláiste ar bith anseo ar chor ar bith." I do not understand why he includes "ar bith" nor why he uses "anseo." Is "ar bith" added for emphasis - as in to stress that there are no colleges whatsoever? Is anseo used in the second sentence because it was in the first, maintaining some sort of continuity between the two since you are clearly talking about the same place?

Go raibh maith agaibh,
Harrison

Níl aon choláiste anseo (ar chor ar bith ) : "There isn't a college here at all" would be my version
you are correct "ar chor ar bith" is for emphasis stressing the lack/absence of a college
ar chor ar bith also means under any circumstances/whatsoever


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017 11:03 am 
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With a negation, "ar bith" means "no..." or "any...".
Ar chor ar bith means "at all" (literally it means "on any turn").

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017 2:24 pm 
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Why does he use "anseo" rather than "ann"?

I thought that "ann" is used when one means a general existence of something, as opposed to pointing out a specific location where something is existing.


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017 4:17 pm 
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Harrison wrote:
Dia dhaoibh,

I'm working through Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish" and have a question about one of the translation exercises from Lesson 4. Exercise 6 asks you to translate "There is good Irish here. There is no college at all." My attempt was "Tá Gaeilge mhaith anseo. Níl coláiste ann ar chor ar bith."

He writes that the correct answer should be "...Níl coláiste ar bith anseo ar chor ar bith." I do not understand why he includes "ar bith" nor why he uses "anseo." Is "ar bith" added for emphasis - as in to stress that there are no colleges whatsoever? Is anseo used in the second sentence because it was in the first, maintaining some sort of continuity between the two since you are clearly talking about the same place?

Go raibh maith agaibh,
Harrison


Níl X ann. -> Níl X ar bith ann. -> Níl X ar bith ann ar chor ar bith.
There's a graduation of negativeness. If you want to use "ar chor ar bith" in a sentence "ar bith" (or "aon") could be used, then you (probably) have to use both:
Níl X ar bith ann ar chor ar bith.

Níl X ann ar chor ar bith is (probably) only acceptable if X cannot be combined with "ar bith" (e.g. Níl iomlán na mná ann ar chor ar bith.)

(Just my idea at the moment. I don't know for sure. That's why I put "(probably)" in this "rule".)

Anseo or ann:
Languages differ extremely in what kind of adverbs are necessary in context. The English sentences are OK with only one "here" in the first sentence. It is understood in the second sentence that you are still talking about the same place.
But not so in German, e.g.: "Hier wird gutes Irisch gesprochen. Es gibt hier überhaupt kein College." ("hier" twice. Omission of second "hier" sounds weird.)
Perhaps it is the same in Irish.


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