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 Post subject: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 4:40 pm 
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As I mentioned, I'm working through Learning Irish with a group of people. It teachers mara then gives maran as an answer (Lesson 11). I found in the old TYI that the present forms are marar, maran, though it is a different dialect. So are these two basically in free variation or is there a rule to their use? Bríd, are either maran or marar used in Connemara or is it just mara?

The sentence was: Maran thusa Cáith, ní bheidh sé sásta ar chor ar bith

I also know that marar is the conditional/past version of it as well, but the TYI quote seemed to suggest it was used in the present as well, though that's like a Munster thing?


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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 6:29 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
As I mentioned, I'm working through Learning Irish with a group of people. It teachers mara then gives maran as an answer (Lesson 11). I found in the old TYI that the present forms are marar, maran, though it is a different dialect. So are these two basically in free variation or is there a rule to their use? Bríd, are either maran or marar used in Connemara or is it just mara?

The sentence was: Maran thusa Cáith, ní bheidh sé sásta ar chor ar bith

I also know that marar is the conditional/past version of it as well, but the TYI quote seemed to suggest it was used in the present as well, though that's like a Munster thing?


Maran is a form used in present tense copula sentences with a following noun or pronoun (except é, í, iad -> marab é/í/íad).

Maran thusa Cáit, ni bheidh sé sásta ar chor ar bith.

Mara/maran is just like "cha/chan" (= ní) in Ulster.


Last edited by Labhrás on Fri 04 Nov 2016 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 6:33 pm 
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If I understand the word you want. In this part of Conamara we'd say "Marach thusa" (if it wasn't for you).


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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 7:54 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:

Maran is a form used in present tense copula sentences with a following noun or pronoun (except é, í, iad -> marab é/í/íad).

Mara/maran is just like "cha/chan" (= ní) in Ulster.



GRMA. So it's basically interchangable with mara when used with the copula? So Mara thusa = Maran thusa?

Bríd Mhór wrote:
If I understand the word you want. In this part of Conamara we'd say "Marach thusa" (if it wasn't for you).


I believe he was aiming for "If you aren't Cáit ..." Convoluted, I know, but that's how I read it.


Last edited by galaxyrocker on Fri 04 Nov 2016 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 8:00 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
I believe he was aiming for "If you were't Cáit ..." Convoluted, I know, but that's how I read it.


Indeed? I thought what was meant was:
If you aren't Kate, he won't be happy.

As in he requested a particular lady, but it looks like another woman showed up from the brothel for service today and the secretary is warning her

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 8:04 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
GRMA. So it's basically interchangable with mara when used with the copula? So Mara thusa = Maran thusa?


Maran ~ Marar thusa, b’fhéidir, in the dialect.
Maran is the older (and more correct) form
(just like the question copula form an ... is replaced by ar ... )

In CO: mura tusa

I’d think mara without -r, -b or -n is used only with verbs (mara gcuireann ..., except tá: marab fhuil)


Last edited by Labhrás on Fri 04 Nov 2016 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov 2016 8:10 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
galaxyrocker wrote:
I believe he was aiming for "If you were't Cáit ..." Convoluted, I know, but that's how I read it.


Indeed? I thought what was meant was:
If you aren't Kate, he won't be happy.

As in he requested a particular lady, but it looks like another woman showed up from the brothel for service today and the secretary is warning her



Yeah, you're right. I was just coming back to correct that.


Labhrás wrote:
Maran ~ Marar thusa, b’fhéidir, in the dialect.
Maran is the older (and more correct) form
(just like the question copula form an ... is replaced by ar ... )

In CO: mura tusa

I’d think mara without -r, -b or -n is used only with verbs (mara gcuireann ..., except tá: marab fhuil)


GRMMA. Now just to find out which is said.

Thanks again Labhrás.

Edit: Just asked a native speaker friend of mine. He said marar would be used.


Last edited by galaxyrocker on Sat 05 Nov 2016 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Sat 05 Nov 2016 5:07 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
I believe he was aiming for "If you aren't Cáit ..." Convoluted, I know, but that's how I read it.


Sorry I misunderstood, yes the word would be "marar".


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 Post subject: Re: mara and maran
PostPosted: Sat 05 Nov 2016 5:34 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
galaxyrocker wrote:
I believe he was aiming for "If you aren't Cáit ..." Convoluted, I know, but that's how I read it.


Sorry I misunderstood, yes the word would be "marar".



Go raibh míle maith agat a Bhríd.


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