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 Post subject: Another phrase
PostPosted: Thu 09 Jun 2016 8:40 pm 
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Here's another one I'm not quite sure how to put into Irish -

"And whose doing is it," said Tom, "but your own ?"


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun 2016 1:41 am 
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''Nach tú féin a rinne é ?'' ! nó ''Cé a rinne é, ach tú féin"


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun 2016 7:21 am 
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Go raibh maith agat. I was thinking that this might be coming directly from Irish, which is why I'm asking about it. Wouldn't the word 'the doing' be a direct translation of the verbal noun déanamh ? For example there's 'the doing of the work' - déanamh oibre. There are various expressions such as -

It's none of my doing - Ní hé mo chiontasa é.
This is John's doing - Is é Seán faoi deara é seo
This is all your doing - Ortsa an locht faoi seo uiligí - or - Tusa bun agus barr an scéal seo uile
You are the cause of it yourself - Tú féin faoi deara é.

but I'm not sure they work here. Is it possible to say this in Irish ? -

"Cé leis an déanamh é seo," arsa Tom, "acht leatsa."


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 12:59 pm 
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'Déanamh' doesn't work . My own first thought - like Séamus - was "Cé a rinne é...", but after googling it and seeing the sentence in context, I don't think that quite does it either. "Whose doing is it...?" here has something to do with cause, responsibility, so I'd say the dictionaries are on the right track.

- 'Cé is údar/cúis leis ach tú féin?'
- 'Cé air a bhfuil an locht ach ort féin?'
- 'Tú féin faoi deara é.' I have to say I wasn't aware of 'faoi deara' in this sense, but it's in all three dictionaries, so must be good. I don't know how it would be phrased with 'cé'. 'Cé faoi deara é ach tú féin?' I don't really know.


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 1:07 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun 2016 12:28 pm 
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This is a similar one - 'on seeing this'. Should I use nuair or agus here ?
Here's the context -

Robin at the first look did not much like the huge size of the hand, and thererfore presented his plough-iron, which the giant seizing, twisted in his grasp round and round again as if it had been a potato stalk; on seeing this all the children set up a shout of laughter.

....nuair a chonaic siad, chualathas scairt gháire ó na pháistí go léir.


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2016 7:43 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
This is a similar one - 'on seeing this'. Should I use nuair or agus here ?
Here's the context -

Robin at the first look did not much like the huge size of the hand, and thererfore presented his plough-iron, which the giant seizing, twisted in his grasp round and round again as if it had been a potato stalk; on seeing this all the children set up a shout of laughter.

....nuair a chonaic siad, chualathas scairt gháire ó na pháistí go léir.

Strangely enough I think "ar" works for this "on" - I am thinking of ar mo tharraingt siar go Carn tSiail domh "On my drawing past Carn tSiail", the opening line from the song Seachrán Charn tSiail.

So, perhaps:

Ar a mbreathnú air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"
Ar a bhfeiceáil air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"

Not sure how to explain the do that follows but the Irish phrase doesn't feel complete without it.

Someone else may be able to elucidate or repudiate the above ...

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2016 9:07 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat - and what would you say for - which the giant seizing ?


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2016 9:17 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Ar a mbreathnú air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"
Ar a bhfeiceáil air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"

I'd say (without a = their):
Ar bhreathnú air sin dóibh

Breandán wrote:
Not sure how to explain the do that follows but the Irish phrase doesn't feel complete without it.

It was a common way to express the subject in verbal noun phrases in the older language.
Now it is confined to such phrases as "ag ... do" (while ...), "ar .... do" (on, after ....), "tar éis ... do" (after ...), "roimh ... do" (before ...)
And it still occurs in sentences as: "Dóbair dom titim" or "Cad chuige duit é sin a rá?" etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Another phrase
PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016 7:04 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Ar a mbreathnú air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"
Ar a bhfeiceáil air sin dóibh "On (their) seeing this"

I'd say (without a = their):
Ar bhreathnú air sin dóibh

Breandán wrote:
Not sure how to explain the do that follows but the Irish phrase doesn't feel complete without it.

It was a common way to express the subject in verbal noun phrases in the older language.
Now it is confined to such phrases as "ag ... do" (while ...), "ar .... do" (on, after ....), "tar éis ... do" (after ...), "roimh ... do" (before ...)
And it still occurs in sentences as: "Dóbair dom titim" or "Cad chuige duit é sin a rá?" etc.

:yes: It's making more sense now. :GRMA:

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[hr]Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher[/hr]
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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