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 Post subject: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016 7:59 am 
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Location: 91 - France
This is a story I'm sure most of you must know. Am I right in thinking the stairs in Irish is always singular ? - Staighre an Fhathaigh.

On the road between Passage and Cork there is an old mansion called Ronayne's Court....
Tá suite ar an mbóthar idir An Pasáiste agus Corcaigh sean tigh mór/tigh mór sean.....
(does sean go before tigh or after ?)

What would be the Irish form of the name Ronayne ?

There's a mention of a place called Seamount (Cnocán na Mara ?) which would be in Kerrycurrihy/Ciarraí Cuirche, but I can't find it on the map - has the name been changed?

Ronayne's Court was built in 1624 and demolished in 1969 - it was apparently near Douglas/Dúbhglas, but I can't find where it was exactly, and there's isn't any reference or name on the map about it. I haven't been able to find any drawing or photo of it, though it was said to be a remarkable building. The main fireplace (to which there is a reference in the story) apparently was saved, but again I can't find a picture of it. The Giant's Stairs apparently were between Passage West/An Pasáiste and Monkstown/Baile an Mhanaigh - is that right ?
Is Mahon (Mac Mahon) Machan in Irish ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016 10:14 am 
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the surname Ronayne is a variant of the name Ronan and as a surname it has the prefix O' (Ó i nGaeilge)
Ronayne = Ó Rónáin .
Mahon = Mathún & MacMahon = Mac Mathúna[ the genitive case adds a literally means son of Mahon.
For a daughter/wife/female member of it would be Ní /Nic/ Mhathúna


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016 10:50 am 
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Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat.
The reason I thought Mahon might be Machan is because Carrigmahon is given as Cnoc Charraig Mhachan on Logainm, so that might be a local pronunciation, but I don't know. A certain Général MacMahon was a Président of France. Does the surname Ó Rónáin have anything to do with the marine mammal, the seal ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016 12:07 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
Go raibh maith agat.
The reason I thought Mahon might be Machan is because Carrigmahon is given as Cnoc Charraig Mhachan on Logainm, so that might be a local pronunciation, but I don't know. A certain Général MacMahon was a Président of France. Does the surname Ó Rónáin have anything to do with the marine mammal, the seal ?


Yes, Rónán = little seal (rón), -án was a diminutive suffix (as is -ín today)

(Mac)Mahon is the anglicized form of Mac Mathúna (old spelling: Mac Mathghamhna).
The first name Mahon is originally Mathúin (old spelling: Mathghamhain)

Other surnames anglicized "Mahon" are Ó Mocháin, Ó Macháin.


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Wed 11 May 2016 10:11 am 
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Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat.


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Wed 11 May 2016 8:27 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
On the road between Passage and Cork there is an old mansion called Ronayne's Court.

Tá suite ar an mbóthar idir An Pasáiste agus Corcaigh sean tigh mór, Cúirt Uí Rónáin a thugtar air.

It may be easily known (recognised?) from the stack of chimneys and gable ends, which are to be seen look at it which way you will.

D'fheadfadh aitheanta go héasca é leis an stoc simléir agus beanna tí le feiscint, amharcann sibh air is cuma cén bealach is mian libh.

Corrections welcome. I'm a bit mystified by the pronunciation of simléar (it sounds almost like the French word cheminée) by the Munster girl on Teanglann, it sounds as if she's using a different spelling - it's the same for feiscint, where the Munsterman pronounces feiscint but the spelling given is feiceáil.


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016 8:48 am 
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Location: 91 - France
Bump :panic:


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016 11:22 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
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franc 91 wrote:
On the road between Passage and Cork there is an old mansion called Ronayne's Court.

Tá suite ar an mbóthar idir An Pasáiste agus Corcaigh sean tigh mór, Cúirt Uí Rónáin a thugtar air.

It may be easily known (recognised?) from the stack of chimneys and gable ends, which are to be seen look at it which way you will.

D'fheadfadh aitheanta go héasca é leis an stoc simléir agus beanna tí le feiscint, amharcann sibh air is cuma cén bealach is mian libh.

Corrections welcome. I'm a bit mystified by the pronunciation of simléar (it sounds almost like the French word cheminée) by the Munster girl on Teanglann, it sounds as if she's using a different spelling - it's the same for feiscint, where the Munsterman pronounces feiscint but the spelling given is feiceáil.


- Tá sean-tigh mór suite... is the normal order (possibly in poetry and story-telling it can be inverted?)
- "the stack of chimneys" >"the chimney stacks" = na stoic simléir (plural).
- D'fhéadfadh duine... - the verb needs a subject, or you could use the saorbhriathar d'fhéadfaí to translate the English passive.
- aitheanta is the verbal adjective. In this context you need the verbal noun aithint and the usual preposition ("recognise/recognisable by/from") is ar.
- "look at it which way you will" - is cuma cén bealach is (/ar) mian libh amharc air/breathnú air. I don't know if they use amharc much in Munster. It's the usual verb in Ulster though. I think the is mian is too literal, and unnecessary:
is cuma cén bealach a mbreathaíonn tú air/mbreathaítear air( Or pé/cibé bealach instead of is cuma cén bealach

D'fhéadfaí é a aithint/tá sé le haithint go héasca ar na stoic simléir atá le feiscint pé bealach a mbreathaítear air

(I did ask you to wait a while.I've just finished now).


Last edited by Errigal on Fri 20 May 2016 12:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016 12:11 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat. For - on the road - would you prefer - ar taobh an bhealaigh ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Giant's Stairs
PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016 3:34 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
Go raibh maith agat. For - on the road - would you prefer - ar taobh an bhealaigh ?


- 'Ar thaobh an bhealaigh/bhóthair' - 'by the roadside'. So 'ar an mbóthar/mbealach' is more accurate, although, needless to say, what I would prefer would be 'ar an bhealach/bhóthar' ('bealach' more common than 'bóthar' in Ulster).

- Yes, 'staighre' seems to be used only in the singular (at least when referring to a set of stairs/a staircase) but google the plural 'staighrí' and see what you get.

- While 'feiscint' is the Munster version of the standard 'feiceáil', you'd think yer man would pronounce the word that's actually shown, to avoid confusion. Ideally, of course, it would be good to have the most common "dialectal variants" also shown and pronounced. Perhaps yer woman pronounces 'simléar' the way it's spelled in Munster?

- Le Général MacMahon - intéressant. An mbeadh gaeilge aige?

- You replied to my previous post before I'd finished the translation.


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