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PostPosted: Sun 24 Apr 2016 8:59 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
At least in Munster rather a d'iarraidh than ag iarraidh (a pecularity of this verbal noun):
a d'iarraidh labhairt
etc.


I have always taken this to be a Munster phenomenon, but I have come across some 11 examples of the form in a version of Feis Tighe Chonáin (FTC) copied by a Ulster scribe and that shows a bias for Ulster placenames.

FTC: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G303010/

Search the document by holding the ctrl key (bottom left hand-side) and pressing f.

d'iarraidh (11 examples)
ag iarraidh (4 examples)

FTC was a widely copied story, it is possible that the Ulster scribe's exemplar was written in Munster Irish but some of the placenames were altered in order to make the text more localised. The more important (well known) placenames seem to be in Munster also. However, there are peculiar Ulster Irish features present, such as leniting the final -m in dom/dam; the final -m is only lenited in Munster when its followed by an emphasising pronoun, -sa.

Are you sure if the form d'iarraidh is confined to Munster Irish?

Cian

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr 2016 1:54 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:

Are you sure if the form d'iarraidh is confined to Munster Irish?

Cian


No, I'm not sure at all. My initial "at least" should actually tone down the confinement ;)
But I'm not sure about the frequency in other dialects either.



In FTC there are a lot of examples of "teacht d'iarraidh" and "co ndeachadh d'iarraidh" etc.
which is typical Ulster Irish (not because of "d'iarraidh" but because of "teacht do ..." instead of teacht ag ... )

Some examples of "d'iarraidh" are direct relatives:
fios thoighe Cuanna atáim d'iarraidh ort. (... atáim a iarraidh ort in today Standard Irish)
in choibhthe do bhí sí d'iarraidh.

Or they are infinite verbal noun constructions:
fios nó fáistine d'iarraidh orum (fios nó fáistine a iarraidh orm in Standard Irish)
nír maith le Mac Reithe fáistine d'iarraidh air

Only one example (IIRC) is a non-relative progressive form with bí:
dá bfuil sib d'iarraidh
And there is a footnote: "leg. oca iarraidh?" :)


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr 2016 11:07 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
In FTC there are a lot of examples of "teacht d'iarraidh" and "co ndeachadh d'iarraidh" etc.
which is typical Ulster Irish (not because of "d'iarraidh" but because of "teacht do ..." instead of teacht ag ... )


:wave: :good: .

Labhrás wrote:
Some examples of "d'iarraidh" are direct relatives:
fios thoighe Cuanna atáim d'iarraidh ort. (... atáim a iarraidh ort in today Standard Irish)
in choibhthe do bhí sí d'iarraidh.

Or they are infinite verbal noun constructions:
fios nó fáistine d'iarraidh orum (fios nó fáistine a iarraidh orm in Standard Irish)
nír maith le Mac Reithe fáistine d'iarraidh air


:guiness: Ah yes, do as the direct relative particle; confusion with older no.

Labhrás wrote:
Only one example (IIRC) is a non-relative progressive form with bí:
dá bfuil sib d'iarraidh
And there is a footnote: "leg. oca iarraidh?" :)


Is this not a non-relative as well though?

[940] táinic sé d'iarraidh h'inghine-si mur [945] mnaoi & mur uhainchéile dhó féin

Cian

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I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr 2016 11:44 am 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Is this not a non-relative as well though?

[940] táinic sé d'iarraidh h'inghine-si mur [945] mnaoi & mur uhainchéile dhó féin

Cian


Yes, but with táinic.

Tháinig sé a iarraidh (or rather: a dh'iarraidh) is normal Ulster Irish (afaik) .
as well as
Tháinig sé a léamh an leabhair etc. (Tháinig sé ag léamh an leabhair elsewhere)
It is unlikeky to find Tháinig sé ag ... in Ulster, but of course it is Tá sé ag ....

What's in question is: Tá sé ag iarraidh or Tá sé a d(h)'iarraidh in Ulster.
In Munster it would be: Tá sé a d'iarraidh.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr 2016 9:14 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Is this not a non-relative as well though?

[940] táinic sé d'iarraidh h'inghine-si mur [945] mnaoi & mur uhainchéile dhó féin

Cian


Yes, but with táinic.

Tháinig sé a iarraidh (or rather: a dh'iarraidh) is normal Ulster Irish (afaik) .
as well as
Tháinig sé a léamh an leabhair etc. (Tháinig sé ag léamh an leabhair elsewhere)
It is unlikeky to find Tháinig sé ag ... in Ulster, but of course it is Tá sé ag ....

What's in question is: Tá sé ag iarraidh or Tá sé a d(h)'iarraidh in Ulster.
In Munster it would be: Tá sé a d'iarraidh.


Ah, tuigim :good: .

So, bíonn dh'iarraidh agaibh ó thuaidh chón maith núair 'thá aon bhriathar eile i gceist siochas an bríathar substainteach féin, sin ana shuimiúil!

Cian

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I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr 2016 11:00 pm 
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Quote:
Tháinig sé a iarraidh (or rather: a dh'iarraidh) is normal Ulster Irish (afaik) .
as well as
Tháinig sé a léamh an leabhair etc. (Tháinig sé ag léamh an leabhair elsewhere)


I think it's "Tháinig sé a léamh na leabhaire/na leabhra". "Leabhar" is feminine in Donegal :)

Quote:
It is unlikeky to find Tháinig sé ag ... in Ulster, but of course it is Tá sé ag ....


true.
Quote:
What's in question is: Tá sé ag iarraidh or Tá sé a d(h)'iarraidh in Ulster.


Tá sé 'g iarraidh. [tæ ʃa gʲari]

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