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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 4:00 pm 
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You're right about laochra I think. I think I was mis applying DNTLS for soiscéalaíochta, in that the s resists lenitions in the genitive case. Is it a case of it must be lenited as it's a "genitive as adjective" kinda thing?

I think if you use "dena" (or desna) it can work too, though I think na is pretty clear as well though to be honest.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 4:16 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Eaglais Soiscéalaíochta na Laochra Phaidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta: Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha

should work then.

Wait for a confirmation or two from others to be sure.


Eaglais Shoiscéalaíochta na Laochra Paidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta: Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé dena Laethanta Deireanacha

-Eaglais is feminine

-Laochra: As far as I know, broad endings don't tend to lenite the following word.

-Dena: I think having dena makes the sense clearer?

That was a mouthful, in the end it was hard to know who owned what :LOL: .

Just from looking at your emblem http://www.iglesiainternacional.cl/engl ... ?photoId=8 , it seems as if the "Evangelical Church" part is a separate entity (a seperate sentence) to the "international prayer warriors".

If you are trying to recreate this emblem in Irish it would go as follows, reading from top to bottom:

-Laochra Paidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta-

-Greasán Domhanda- 'Worldwide Network'

-Ie é Íosa an Tiarna- 'Jesus is Lord'

-An Airm Ollchumhachtach/ Neartmhar Ungtha Dé dena Laethanata Deireanacha-

-Eaglais Shoiscéalaíochta-



I feared a little that "Evangelical Church" would seem a seperate sentence in the logo, but it's part of the whole sentence: "International Prayer Warriors Evangelical Church".

Can you explain me why "Prayer Warriors" is translated "Laochra Paidreoireachta", since "Paidreoireachta" is the plural for prayer, and the correct term is "warriors of prayer" and not "warriors of prayers." Gumbi first wrote that it could be "Laochra Paidir". Is that okay?


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 4:19 pm 
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Paidir is "a prayer" - paidreoireacht is the act of praying which is more suitable.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 4:24 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
Paidir is "a prayer" - paidreoireacht is the act of praying which is more suitable.


Okay, I'll take your advise. Thanks :)

And for the Traditional Irish Gaeigle Font that I mentioned a while ago? Where can I find it?


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 4:49 pm 
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chevygarrido1959 wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Eaglais Soiscéalaíochta na Laochra Phaidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta: Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha

should work then.

Wait for a confirmation or two from others to be sure.


Looks good from here! Quite a mouthful, in English or in Irish!

Redwolf


Thank you so much guys!

What Gumbi wrote for "Prayer Warriors" in the beggining, I'm going for it, which was "Laochra Paidir", since the term "Laochra Phaidreacha" is Warriors of prayers (plural for prayer), and the correct version is Warriors of Prayer. Therefore, it would be "Laochra Paidir".



Please always keep in mind that what may seem like a logical approach to a translation to a new learner of the language doesn't always work well in the language itself. Irish idioms are very different to English, and it takes some practice with them, and, occasionally, some discussion (as has been happening here) to arrive at a translation that says what you mean it to say in an idiom that is natural to Irish.

That's why we always advise people who ask for translations to wait for three people here to be in agreement before going ahead with anything...it's not just to be sure it's grammatically correct (important as that is!), but to be sure that it works naturally in the language.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 5:17 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha[/b]
.


I'd think you cannot use "Dé" and a second genitive with "na".
"Arm" is made definite ("the army") by "Dé" so no additional article is possible.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 5:55 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha[/b]
.


I'd think you cannot use "Dé" and a second genitive with "na".
"Arm" is made definite ("the army") by "Dé" so no additional article is possible.

Not quite. First of all, the rule evaluates from inside out, deepest genitive first, so right-to-left. A definite to the right obviates the need for one to the left, but not the other way round.

(In fact, it was suggested to me last week that this rule is taught completely wrong in Scottish Gaelic, and I suspect the same holds for Irish -- the rule I was told last week is that only the leftmost, genitive marked noun can take the article, and everything else is qualified by the noun below it (analogous to how you can't say "John's brother's the son is John's the nephew in English", although word order here is reversed).)

Now... is it possible to have two rightmost nouns? Actually yes, and it's best shown by breaking the phrase down into its components.

Consider that the following is not a subpart of the nounphrase:
.. Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha
It is not referring to a "God of the final days", so "God" is leftmost in a subphrase, and "the final days" is leftmost in the full phrase.

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If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 6:17 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha[/b]
.


I'd think you cannot use "Dé" and a second genitive with "na".
"Arm" is made definite ("the army") by "Dé" so no additional article is possible.

Not quite. First of all, the rule evaluates from inside out, deepest genitive first, so right-to-left. A definite to the right obviates the need for one to the left, but not the other way round.

(In fact, it was suggested to me last week that this rule is taught completely wrong in Scottish Gaelic, and I suspect the same holds for Irish -- the rule I was told last week is that only the leftmost, genitive marked noun can take the article, and everything else is qualified by the noun below it (analogous to how you can't say "John's brother's the son is John's the nephew in English", although word order here is reversed).)

Now... is it possible to have two rightmost nouns? Actually yes, and it's best shown by breaking the phrase down into its components.

Consider that the following is not a subpart of the nounphrase:
.. Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha
It is not referring to a "God of the final days", so "God" is leftmost in a subphrase, and "the final days" is leftmost in the full phrase.



I'm noticing that the preposition "de" (of) is missing for "Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé (de) na Laethanta Deireanacha". Because, just like you said, It is not referring to a "God of the final days", but "God's anointed mighty army of the final days." Am I correct?

Chevy


Last edited by chevygarrido1959 on Thu 14 May 2015 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 6:24 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Eaglais Soiscéalaíochta na Laochra Phaidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta: Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha

should work then.

Wait for a confirmation or two from others to be sure.


Eaglais Shoiscéalaíochta na Laochra Paidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta: Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé dena Laethanta Deireanacha

-Eaglais is feminine

-Laochra: As far as I know, broad endings don't tend to lenite the following word.

-Dena: I think having dena makes the sense clearer?

That was a mouthful, in the end it was hard to know who owned what :LOL: .

Just from looking at your emblem http://www.iglesiainternacional.cl/engl ... ?photoId=8 , it seems as if the "Evangelical Church" part is a separate entity (a seperate sentence) to the "international prayer warriors".

If you are trying to recreate this emblem in Irish it would go as follows, reading from top to bottom:

-Laochra Paidreoireachta Idirnáisiúnta-

-Greasán Domhanda- 'Worldwide Network'

-Ie é Íosa an Tiarna- 'Jesus is Lord'

-An Airm Ollchumhachtach/ Neartmhar Ungtha Dé dena Laethanata Deireanacha-

-Eaglais Shoiscéalaíochta-



Hey, I saw in your thread the phrase "Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ" in the traditional Celtic Gaeilge font. How did you do that? :D

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PostPosted: Thu 14 May 2015 6:26 pm 
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chevygarrido1959 wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha[/b]
.


I'd think you cannot use "Dé" and a second genitive with "na".
"Arm" is made definite ("the army") by "Dé" so no additional article is possible.

Not quite. First of all, the rule evaluates from inside out, deepest genitive first, so right-to-left. A definite to the right obviates the need for one to the left, but not the other way round.

(In fact, it was suggested to me last week that this rule is taught completely wrong in Scottish Gaelic, and I suspect the same holds for Irish -- the rule I was told last week is that only the leftmost, genitive marked noun can take the article, and everything else is qualified by the noun below it (analogous to how you can't say "John's brother's the son is John's the nephew in English", although word order here is reversed).)

Now... is it possible to have two rightmost nouns? Actually yes, and it's best shown by breaking the phrase down into its components.

Consider that the following is not a subpart of the nounphrase:
.. Dé na Laethanta Deireanacha
It is not referring to a "God of the final days", so "God" is leftmost in a subphrase, and "the final days" is leftmost in the full phrase.



I'm noticing that the preposition "de" (of) is missing for "Arm Neartmhar Ungtha Dé (de) na Laethanta Deireanacha". Because, just like you said, It is not referring to a "God of the final days", but "God's anointed might army of the final days." Am I correct?

Chevy


The concept of "of" is supplied by the genitive relationship of the words themselves. No need for a preposition.

Redwolf


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