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PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014 7:48 pm 
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Hello, I'm writing a novel that incorporates different elements of Wisps in European Folklore into modern-day society (a fantasy novel).

Could I please have these words translated and how would I write them in Ogham?:
Truth/Knowledge
Power
Destruction/Suffering
Healing


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014 8:31 pm 
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wonderra wrote:
Hello, I'm writing a novel that incorporates different elements of Wisps in European Folklore into modern-day society (a fantasy novel).

Could I please have these words translated and how would I write them in Ogham?:
Truth/Knowledge
Power
Destruction/Suffering
Healing


Just as in English, some concepts can be expressed in various ways, depending on the context. Except as otherwise noted, what I'm giving below are general terms for these things, expressed out of context (enlarged, so that you can see any accents better):

fìrinn = truth [there's an accent over the first "i"]
fios = knowledge, in the general sense of knowing something
eolas = knowledge in a perhaps more learned sense
cumhachd = power
sgrios = destruction
fulang = suffering, in the sense of bearing something
cràdh = suffering in a more physical sense, like suffering pain
slànachadh = healing

I assume you know that these words can change form when used in a sentence, so if you were planning to use them that way it would be a good idea to explain that and someone can help with any needed changes. So far as I'm aware (and I'm not an expert), Ogham was only used for writing personal and place names. The druids may have used it for some other purposes, but on the other hand they are said to have been opposed to written records. I can't give you Ogham versions of these words myself, but there are links on the forum for Ogham issues. Hereis a link to one thread which discussed Ogham: http://irishlearner.awyr.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2396

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Feb 2014 11:15 pm 
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Thank you! Yes, I'm aware that the words would change depending on how they are used in a sentence. I'm planning on using them as individual words. Fios/Fìrinn, in the book, would be inscribed in Ogham on each side of a silver pendant, then cumhachd/tiorrainteachd (would that be the correct word to use for oblivion?), then fulang/slànachadh on two other pendants, respectively.


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Feb 2014 6:57 am 
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wonderra wrote:
Thank you! Yes, I'm aware that the words would change depending on how they are used in a sentence. I'm planning on using them as individual words. Fios/Fìrinn, in the book, would be inscribed in Ogham on each side of a silver pendant, then cumhachd/tiorrainteachd (would that be the correct word to use for oblivion?), then fulang/slànachadh on two other pendants, respectively.


I had to look up the translation for oblivion, since I've never seen it in Gaelic. What I found is dìochuimhne, which can also mean "forgetfulness". It can apparently be used for oblivion in expressions such as rach air dìochuimhne, which can be understood as meaning "go into forgetfulness/forgotten-ness" (= "pass into oblivion").

I have a pretty good collection of Gaelic dictionaries (of which there are not all that many), including reprints of the older ones, and none of them had the word tiorrainteachd. Irish has the word tíorantacht, which would appear to be a rough equivalent, given the usual spelling differences between the two languages, but that means "tyranny", "despotism", or oppression". The Irish word is obviously based on an English (or possibly Latin or Norman French) loan-word, and it may be that Scottish Gaelic never borrowed that word. In any case, it's hard to see how its meaning could change to "oblivion".

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Feb 2014 7:35 pm 
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Thank you. Actually, I'm debating whether or not I should use Old Irish or Scottish Gaelic. I'm thinking, in the story, I would like to have the pendant be from around the middle ages, and Old Irish should make more sense if I choose that.

Do you know what those words would be in Old Irish?

(Also, I would like to actually learn Scottish Gaelic, but I don't have enough spare time on my hands for that right now).


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Feb 2014 9:08 pm 
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wonderra wrote:
Thank you. Actually, I'm debating whether or not I should use Old Irish or Scottish Gaelic. I'm thinking, in the story, I would like to have the pendant be from around the middle ages, and Old Irish should make more sense if I choose that.

Do you know what those words would be in Old Irish?

(Also, I would like to actually learn Scottish Gaelic, but I don't have enough spare time on my hands for that right now).


Old Irish is the "ancestor" of both modern Irish and modern Scottish Gaelic, so the terminology used in both countries would have been very similar, at least in the early Middle Ages. In fact, the Scots wrote in Irish until the 16th or 17th century, and there was no separate written form for Scottish Gaelic until after then, even though the spoken language had already diverged (and continued to do so). Even today, the written form of Scottish Gaelic remains somewhat in flux, with various ways of spelling some words, since there were no institutions until recent years to help create any standards.

I'm not well-versed in Old Irish, although I can recognize lots of the words when I see them. There are some people in the Irish part of the forum who know much more about it. I'm one of the moderators, so if you like, I can move your thread there and mark it to get their attention.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Feb 2014 9:19 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
I had to look up the translation for oblivion, since I've never seen it in Gaelic. What I found is dìochuimhne, which can also mean "forgetfulness". It can apparently be used for oblivion in expressions such as rach air dìochuimhne, which can be understood as meaning "go into forgetfulness/forgotten-ness" (= "pass into oblivion").

...and there is an unavoidable problem with word translation: words change in both languages. I believ the Latin root of "oblivion" comes from "to forget". In English, it's a word that's really hard to define, because it's really only used in poetry in a very vague way.

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