GRMA

Redwolf

I didn't know anything about Mallorca except that it is a popular sun-holiday destination for Irish people.
To really show my ignorance I thought Mallorca and Majorca were different islands.



Very Interesting. I had noticed Breton sounded like French, but I thought it was just the majority language influence (like urban-Irish ).

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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Mediterranean, Benvingut i Molt de gust!

I've worked with a few Catalan speakers, although they were either the Barcelona dialect or the Valencian dialect (I know some Valencians say they speak a different language! )

It would probably be easier for you to pronounce Irish correctly than it would be for an English speaker, at least that's what I found when I got some of my workmates to try making the sounds!

Que vagi bé!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Ok, just as I thought. Same thing happening in my language with consonants and vowels.



Ok, that must happen to me because I have no French. But imagine for a moment Breton were spoken also in England, or on an island belonging to England. Do you think it would sound like the Breton spoken in France? No, I'm sure it would sound anglicized. It's like Corsican, that language is similar to Italian, it should sound similar to Italian but it doesn't, it sounds frenchized because it belongs to France. It's an unstoppable phenomenon because the State controls the media and controls everything.

About my island, just a tip: Never trust the Spanish Wikipedia on articles referring to minorized languages, nations, etc, because it's highly politicized. The people who control it are very nationalist, very anti-Catalan (they want to split Catalan into different languages so it's weaker), and it's the only Wikipedia that insists on using unofficial hispanicized toponims from the Franco era. So, yeah, it's better that you get the information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catal%C3%A0
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallorqu%C3%AD



Ok, this is the Lord's Prayer in the Catalan of Mallorca:

Pare nostre que estau en el cel, sigui santificat el vostre nom; véngui a nosaltres el vostre Regne; es faci la vostra voluntat, així a la terra com es fa en el cel. El nostre pa de cada dia donau-nos, Senyor, el dia d'avui; i perdonau-nos les nostres culpes, així com nosaltres perdonam els nostres deutors; i no permeteu que nosaltres caiguem a la temptació, ans alliberau-nos de qualsevol mal. Amèn.



Majorca is the English spelling of Mallorca. In Catalan, "ll" is not pronounced like a single L at all, it's a sound that doesn't exist in English and I'd like to discover if it exists in Irish (it does exist in Italian, spelled "gli").




Wow, gràcies! I didn't expect that.



Cool, thanks for the good news!

I got an email telling me that I got a private message here but when I go to read it I can't, it says: We are sorry, but you are not authorised to use this feature. You may have just registered here and may need to participate more to be able to use this feature.

Your single l exists in Irish as what is called broad l, I think. The double ll doesn't exist, at least not in the dialect I use. Lughaidh probably knows the situation better.

EDIT: You need ten posts to access the private messages.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Ok. But then, what's the slender L like? Does it exist? Does it sound different from the broad L?


Ah, ok, thanks.

It so often you hear heavily influenced English pronunciation on the media, if you want to master the language emulate people from the Gaeltacht.

Every consonant in Irish has a broad and slender version. In addition many consonants can be lenited, this is
where in some situations they get softened in pronunciation, often producing completely different sounds.

L is no different, there was originally:
Unlenited broad l (Lóma)
Unlenited slender l (Leoithne)
Lenited broad l
Lenited slender l (Achtáil)

Here's a really good example, this is Bríd Mhór above, I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her!
Leoithne
Achtáil
Lóma

The first word starts with a unlenited slender l.
The second one has lenited slender l.
The third word starts with a unlenited broad l.

However L,N,R are unusual in that a lot of dialects have lost some of the four versions.
Some dialects have only two (Munster), others have three of them (like Bríd's dialect), others still have all four (Mayo).

See here:
Fortis and Lenis
In the table you'll see all the original four sounds for L, N and R in the left most column. The rest of the column shows you
what they became in each dialect.

This makes a slight difference grammatically. For instance after the possessive mo (my, el meu) you always
use a lenited version:

Leaba = Bed, llit
Mo Leaba = My bed, el meu llit

Mo lenites consonants, so originally you used one version of L in the first and another in the second. However today some dialects don't have the two versions so it's identical.

Probably too much information!!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Wow, 4 versions of the same consonant, this is so complicated! But thanks for the info. I'm going to have a listen because there's no way I can understand the differences without hearing it.