Hi all,

Recently, I've been thinking about the verbs "tabhair", "gabh", and "cuir" - and I realise that I'm not quite satisfied with the basic knowledge that tabhair = give, cuir = put, etc. They all have idioms I'd like to better understand.

There are certain peculiar idioms with tabhair;

tabhair anseo iad = bring them here
tabhair abhaile iad = take them home
thug an fód faoi mo chosa = the sod gave way under my feet
ná tabhair léim na díge sin = don't jump that ditch
thug an fiabhras a bhás = the fever caused his death [would this be a possessive 'a'?]
thug sé an áit a dhíol = he caused the place to be sold [would this be a possessive 'a' referring to the same person as 'sé'?]

gabh can mean several things;

ag gabháil abhaile = going home
gabh isteach = come in
rud a ghabháil i do lámh = to take something in your hand (although I am finding it easier to rationalise it in this sense, as opposed to tóg etc.)

and with cuir;

cath a chur = to wage a war
rud a chur ag oibriú = to set something working (tabhair can also be used to express causality?)

(examples from teanglann)

In Irish/Gaelic grammar, beir and tóg have their nuances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-E ... l_pronouns

So is it possible that each of the 3 verbs here have something to them someone would also miss? I have attempted to reach my own understanding, but I'm not so confident.

It seems like all 3 illustrate something like displacement in some manner (if I'm conceivably onto something, for lack of better terms, there'd be an "origin" and "destination" along with the verbs' subject which moves the object from origin to destination).

Tabhair and cuir seem similar - I would even pair them, like beir and tóg. They both seem to be able to illustrate causality (origin = cause, destination = event), however what's the difference? I initially thought cuir put an emphasis on the "event", whereas tabhair could be more emphasising the "cause".

Sometimes, the origin/destination/other information seems to be absent, e.g. cath a chur, ná tabhair léim an díge sin, thug an fód faoi mo chosa. In such cases, could they be understood (and consequently implicit)? In thug an fód faoi mo chosa, it's obvious that the sod was initially beneath the person's feet before being moved from that position, for example. thug an fiabhras a bhás is something I could register as thug an fiabhras a bhás dó or thug an fiabhras é chun/go dtí a bhás . ná tabhair léim na díge sin could also be rewritten as ná tabhair {do} léim na díge sin, as in "don't let me/providence/{thing indicated by do} witness you doing this"?

With regards to gabh, does this emphasise for whatever reason the object (or action itself)? ag gabháil ar turas/scoil as opposed to ag dul ar turas/scoil; would there be some significance to the journey/school in the case of the former? Similarly, in its sense of taking/catching something; Ghabh sé ar ghreim scornaí é seems to have more energy than Rug sé ar ghreim scornaí é - this would also be true where it could be used for seizing territory, catching a ball (potentially in a fast-paced sport), etc.

There's also some clashes, e.g. gabh isteach vs tar isteach? ag gabháil abhaile vs ag dul abhaile? Maybe certain dialects prefer gabh, which is fair enough. Why tabhair abhaile iad and not tóg abhaile iad? I suppose being in/accepting possession of people might be awkward.

I also by happenstance came upon the verb fear while looking at these verbs. The teanglann entry makes it out to appear similar to tabhair, does this mean anything?

I'm not so concerned about dialects for this one, but I'm pursuing Munster. I could be wrong on anything that I'm assuming, and I guess if they're not so easy to define, c'est la vie.
GRMA.

Many idioms are Béarlachas, some of long-standing, eg. cur suas leis - to put up with it.

tóg - originally meant "to lift". All the idioms where it means "take" are Béarlachas.

Yes, a = his, here.

No, it is the verbal noun particle or "infinitive particle" (do > a; "to"), an áit a dhíol = to sell the place

Some Irish idioms are hard to decipher, other idioms are simple, making sense by verbatim translation,
e.g. Thug an fiabhras a bhás. = The fever brought/gave his death. Easy.

It is always useful to translate literally to understand the idiom and to think Irish when reproducing them.
But gabh has just intruded in the paradigm of téigh in some dialects and only in some tenses.
It is not the same verb as gabh = take anymore, so "Take inside!" makes no sense as literal translation for "Gabh isteach". It is just "Go inside".
It means exactly the same as "Téigh isteach" (or "Téir isteach").
The difference to "Tar isteach" is the position of the speaker: tar = he is already inside, téigh = he is somewhere else.

Cuir and tabhair are causative (and there are others), but quite different.
Cuir causes someone to do something. But tabhair can’t cause someone, it can only cause an action to happen:
Thug sé an áit a dhíol. But who would sell it? (There was passive "to be sold" in the translation for that reason)
Chuir sé mé ag díol na háite. He caused me to sell it.

Rather "to take up".
It is etymologically the same verb as gabh ("take") but with two prefixes:
to-od-gab-im > tócbaim > tógaim

Thank you for the information.