It is currently Fri 14 Feb 2025 7:56 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 143 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 15  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat 11 Jan 2025 10:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
pé duine leis ar raibh sé ag caint ????

Are you sure? I don't that is the CO form at all.

Might it be: pé duine lena raibh sé ag caint?


Labhrás wrote:
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
pé duine go raibh sé ag caint leis, the more commonly used form of pé duine leis ar raibh sé ag caint (which is more encouraged in the Caighdeán, I believe), possibly influenced by English?


Once you could say "duine leis a raibh" in some now extinct dialects (in the North East, iirc).
It is far from being Standard - except for questions.
(This word order is still used in questions: Cé leis a raibh ....)

Standard is: duine a raibh ... leis (or: duine lena raibh ...)

(BTW: a raibh - not: ar raibh. One r (< ro) is enough.)

duine go raibh ... leis is not influenced by English. Go is a combination of ag + a, here. It is not the conjunction go.
duine ’na raibh ... leis was an alternative version in Munster (’na = ina = combination of i + a)


Thank you for the corrections!

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 11 Jan 2025 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
53-55

Chuirfeadh sé a chois ... oftentimes the dative form (i.e. cois) replaces the normal form of certain feminine nouns in the nominative case (i.e. cos). In the case of this author, the dative forms láimh and cois often replace the nominative case forms.
ní éisteofar go deo arís leo 'they will not be listened to again'
dearúd, Munster form of dearmad (often spelt dearmhad ~ dearamhad)
Agus ansan gheobhainn mo chleataráil 'And then I would get my clattering'? For some reason part of me thinks that here cleataráil is a Béarlachas term meaning 'collateral'
scéim 'scheme, plan'
píopán 'spout'
subh 'jam'
drom, Munster form of droim
ar líne 'in a line'
bhíodh murdal ann gach aon mhaidin mar bhíodh gach éinne ag iarraidh na stocaí is fearr a fháil do fhéin could murdal here by a typo for murdar?
leac oighir 'sheet of ice'
cipín 'little stick'

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan 2025 9:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
56 - 58

seanduine normally the prefix sean- is seana- when before consonants in Munster, which eliminates the DNTLS DTS rule, but I have also encountered the form seanduine. This could either be a standardisation or part of the authors individual speech
don mbóthar don often causes lenition in Munster, especially in Cork, but it is more often followed by eclipsis in CDh. 'on (< don) causes lenition (including t prefix to words starting with s-)
pén diabhal a tháinig orm 'whatever happened to me'
dhein sé scread orm 'he screamed at me'
an fhaid 'as long as'
geimhreadh, pronounced gíre
Bheadh sé ag tarrac abhaile móin a bheadh ... is there a reason that móin isn't in the genitive here?
níbh = ní raibh
turcaí 'turkey'
leapan genitive of leaba(idh), found alongside leapa
thar doras isteach here doras has become generalised (like 'top' in 'on top') and thus does not require the definite article. This occurrence is very common in Peadar Ó Laoghaire's Irish (e.g. go doras, chun tailimh) but is not as commonly found within CDh, I believe
nach deas é thú, this could also be found as nach deas t(h)ú. This could also be viewed as a shortening for nach deas é an rud/saghas/ní t(h)ú(-sa). The usage of é before the subject of the copula is very common in Munster, especially before definite nouns

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jan 2025 1:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1434
Seanduine is always said like that. It has become a single word.
Móin - is separated from the verbal noun and is part of a subsequent noun phrase.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan 2025 12:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
Page 60-62

roimhe sin, roimis sin is more common in CDh
Bhíodh an áit ag féachaint go hálainn this might be Béarlachas. I'm used to hearing Bhíodh an áit ag breathnú go hálainn
ag cíoradh a gruaige 'combing her hair'
ná mór na ceisteanna atá agat, typically nách ~ nach would be the negative interrogitive form or direct/indirect negative clause introducing form of the copula, but is also found (though most of the time it is only used with verbs)
gura maith agat phonetic spelling of go raibh maith agat. Perhaps go ra' maith agat would be more appropriate
Tá an tír ar fad siúlta agam 'I've walked the whole world'
CDh form of tae
Ó ná tá fhios agam perhaps a grammatical error: Ó ná fuil (a) fhios agam?
séipéal, sáipéal is more common
dative of , one of the few masculine nouns that possess a distinct dative form
seint CDh form of seinm

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan 2025 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
63 - 65

in airde staighre perhaps another example of generalisation and subsequent loss of the article?
coinneal 'candle'
ag fuaradh 'cooling off'
ná téir in aon ghiorracht do 'don't get close to them'
gan mhoill 'soon'
buaile 'miling place'
cnocán mór aoiligh 'a big pile of dung'
nach fiosrach atánn tú 'aren't you curious'
chuireadh sé an ruaig orainn is bhí an ceart aige 'he would chase us out and he was right to do so'
ní mór ná gur imigh mo anáil uaim 'I almost lost my breath'
teach tábhairne normally would be tigh tábhairne in Munster, but this might be an example of the nominative surviving within a specific phrase of this speakers ideolect (or it's just bad standardisation)

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan 2025 9:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1434
teach tábhairne is ti' táirne ̇


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 17 Jan 2025 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
66 - 68

lán go slait 'full to the yard'?
go dtí often said to only precede nouns that start with an (e.g. go dtí 'n nDaingean), but really it is used when preceding all definite nouns, as in go dtí Australia
gan dabht bhí cúpla cnag á fháil anois is arís agam agus é tuillte is dócha 'of course there I had the occasional knock, which I suppose I deserved'
peataíocht 'pettish, childish behaviour'
cad é sceitimíní 'what excitment'
caithfear coimeád ag threabhadh 'we'll have to keep at it'
dul a chodladh luath I would expect go luath, as it is being used as an adverb
tháinig stad ionam 'I stopped', where the noun stad is being used as the subject rather than the, quite flat, stadas
sin eile 'that's another thing'?
oíche. In Munster, inter-vocalic slender ch is usually pronounced h (except in compound words), but the word oíche often retains the strong /ç/ sound.
bhí sé fhéin sa chistin agus an pean ar an dtine does anybody have any idea as to what pean means here?
tá an mhaidin ag éalú uainn 'the morning is flying away from us'
gadhar normally in Munster the word madra is used to mean 'dog', gadhar having a more specific meaning, but based on the frequency of the usage of the word in the book, one might assume that the author uses gadhar in most contexts

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 17 Jan 2025 10:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1434
I haven't checked the text, but:
1. peataíocht: could this mean "being treated as a pet"?
2. sin eile - this could mean "sin uile", that's all.
3. oíche: as far as I know, it is just íhi, with with strong nasalisation of the first vowel.
4. pean - pan??? saucepan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 17 Jan 2025 11:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
peataíocht: could this mean "being treated as a pet"?


That would definitely make more sense in the context that it was given

djwebb2021 wrote:
3. oíche: as far as I know, it is just íhi, with with strong nasalisation of the first vowel.


Oral literature from Dunquin:

Quote:
Do bhí an oidhche go subháilceach aca cómh fada lé rinnce agus ceol agus deoch go flúirseach lé n-ól. ... də v´i: n i:x´ə gə səˈva:l´k´əx əku ko: fadə l´e: ri:ŋ´k´ə agəs k´o:l agəs d´ox gə flu:rʃəx l´e: no:l -


and

Quote:
Ach dá fhaid lá tigeann oidhche. ... ax da: ad´ la: t´ig´ən i:x´ə -

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 143 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 15  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 82 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group