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PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2024 4:06 am 
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Does anybody know how interrogatives consisting of how + adjective (e.g. 'how often', 'how many', 'how difficult') are treated in Munster Irish (particularly Corca Dhuibhne)? As far as I can tell, the general structure is an + abstract noun form of the adjective (i.e. an miniceacht; also, is miniceacht found all throughout Munster or is minicigheacht also found as well?), but this 'rule' tends to very quite a bit, especially with certain adjectives (especially with 'how many', which can be an 'mó, which is used most frequently, I think; cá mhéid; and cad a bhfuil de dhaoine [only for people]. I think that can also be used for such constructions, and cad ó'n méad/an 'mó + noun is also common. As always, all help is appreciated agus tá súil agam go bhfuil aig éirghe go maith libh go léir.

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2024 12:58 pm 
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Cad é a mhinicí?

Cad a bhfuil is not used only with people. Ua Laoghaire has: Ó, cad a bhfuil agam ’á fhulang laistigh! (Aithris ar Chríost, 196)

My article on interrogatives in Muskerry Irish was published in Éigse. I can send you a PDF.


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PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2024 2:42 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Cad é a mhinicí?

Cad a bhfuil is not used only with people. Ua Laoghaire has: Ó, cad a bhfuil agam ’á fhulang laistigh! (Aithris ar Chríost, 196)

My article on interrogatives in Muskerry Irish was published in Éigse. I can send you a PDF.


Ba bhreá liom san, go roibh míle maith agat.

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2024 3:28 pm 
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Note these:

cé hé me?
cé hé thu?
cé hé féin?

cé hiad sinn?
cé hiad sibh?
cé hiad féin?

It might be a bit counterintuitive that the subsubject has to be "iad" with sinn and sibh, but those are the correct forms above.

And:

cad é an rud me?
cad é an rud thu?
cad é an rud é?

cad iad na rudaí sinn?
cad iad na rudaí sibh?
cad iad na rudaí iad?

Of course you don't often have to ask, in any language, "what am I?", but those are the correct sentences. Or: cad é an saghas me? cad é an ní me?

The plural rudaí is used where the predicate anticipates multiple nouns in the answer. Cad é an rud sibh? is fine if the answer is just "daoine". But if it is "daoine agus ainmhithe", then it is cad iad na rudaí sibh?


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PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2024 4:40 pm 
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Cad a bhfuil (de ...) (lit.: "what all are (of ...)") is not really a question but an exclamation, a lament about the amount.

Probably other verbs could occur as well, e.g. Cad ar cuireadh díobh anuraidh! (How many of them have been buried last year!)


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2024 10:22 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Note these:

cé hé me?
cé hé thu?
cé hé féin?



Are these forms more formal? They seem a bit unwieldy.
I could swear I've heard cé mise, cé thusa, cé hé, cé hí.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2024 10:48 pm 
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beepbopboop wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Note these:

cé hé me?
cé hé thu?
cé hé féin?



Are these forms more formal? They seem a bit unwieldy.
I could swear I've heard cé mise, cé thusa, cé hé, cé hí.


If you're talking about Munster Irish, then as far as I know cé hé me? is the only correct form. Those who say cé mise - are speaking some other dialect, or Standard Irish, or simply getting it wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2024 10:57 pm 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
beepbopboop wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Note these:

cé hé me?
cé hé thu?
cé hé féin?



Are these forms more formal? They seem a bit unwieldy.
I could swear I've heard cé mise, cé thusa, cé hé, cé hí.


If you're talking about Munster Irish, then as far as I know cé hé me? is the only correct form. Those who say cé mise - are speaking some other dialect, or Standard Irish, or simply getting it wrong.


I believe I've even heard Cé hé mise in standard Irish.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2024 11:28 pm 
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Séamus O'Neill wrote:

I believe I've even heard Cé hé mise in standard Irish.

It probably is standard Irish. I know almost nothing about the CO. I've read about 10 pages in the CO.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Nov 2024 1:12 pm 
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Yeah that makes sense, it might be a CO thing.
I'm seeing cé mise here in de Bhaldraithe, 1959. It's usually good for non-CO forms, but of course it could be a Connacht or Ulster form.


Quote:
I believe I've even heard Cé hé mise in standard Irish.

That's fine though right? If cé hé mé is correct Munster Irish, then cé hé mise would also be correct Munster Irish, it's just a contrast form no?


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