Confusing phrase in Kerry Irish

Séamus O'Neill · **Posted:** Fri 01 Nov 2024 4:04 pm

Día 's Muire ḋaoiḃ, tá súil agam go ḃ-fuil aig' éirġe go maiṫ liḃ go léir

I recently came across a confusing phrase in Heinrich Wagner's oral literature from Dunquin, co. Kerry:

Quote:

Bhí feirmeoir i n-áit éigin i gceanntar Chiarraí agus níor dh'fhág leaba an duine bhoicht riamh é.

The first part is relatively easy to translate as 'There was a farmer in some place in the district of Kerry', but the second part has me a little confused. Literally, I'd think it would mean 'and the poor person's bed never left him', but, obviously this doesn't make much sense. Could this perhaps just be idiomatic (e.g. maybe just saying that he was was very poor), and if so do any of you know of any expressions similar to this?

Go roiḃ maiṫ agaiḃ roim ré

Errigal · **Joined:** Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm **Posts:** 698

Maybe ‘…and the poor person’s bed never left it’ (the place), i.e., he never spent a night away from there. I know ‘áit’ is fem., but it sometimes takes the masc. pronoun - though I don’t know if this is so when it’s the object of the verb. Perhaps I’m just forcing the grammar to fit my translation☺️ Then again maybe ‘é’ refers to ‘ceantar’, not ‘áit’.

Séamus O'Neill · **Posted:** Sat 02 Nov 2024 4:09 pm

Errigal wrote:

Maybe ‘…and the poor person’s bed never left it’ (the place), i.e., he never spent a night away from there. I know ‘áit’ is fem., but it sometimes takes the masc. pronoun - though I don’t know if this is so when it’s the object of the verb. Perhaps I’m just forcing the grammar to fit my translation☺️ Then again maybe ‘é’ refers to ‘ceantar’, not ‘áit’.

Go roiḃ míle maiṫ agat. An dóiġ leat go m-beiḋfeá i n-dán sampla eile do ṫaḃairt agus a' focal áit 'á h-úsáid mar focal firinscneach leis a' ḃ-for-ainm?

djwebb2021 · **Joined:** Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am **Posts:** 1324

From Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Sgéalaidheachta as an mBíobla Naomhtha, Vol 1, p68:

Quote:

Ní raibh an áit n-ar shocaruigh Iacob é féin chun cómhnuighthe, ní raibh sé abhfad ó chathair Shalem, cathair na Sicimach

From Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Notes on Irish Words and Usages, pp3-4:

Quote:

Áit. Ní raibh an áit… ní raibh sé (Sg. I. 68). Here, although "áit" is a fem. noun, the pronoun "sé" which represents it is masculine, because it refers, not to the word "place," but to the thing, that is, to the place itself.

djwebb2021 · **Joined:** Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am **Posts:** 1324

Is é ainm a bhí air ná Séadna...
Sin é cúis...

These are normal Irish phrases.

Séamus O'Neill · **Posted:** Sat 02 Nov 2024 5:20 pm

djwebb2021 wrote:

From Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Sgéalaidheachta as an mBíobla Naomhtha, Vol 1, p68:

Quote:

Ní raibh an áit n-ar shocaruigh Iacob é féin chun cómhnuighthe, ní raibh sé abhfad ó chathair Shalem, cathair na Sicimach

From Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Notes on Irish Words and Usages, pp3-4:

Quote:

Áit. Ní raibh an áit… ní raibh sé (Sg. I. 68). Here, although "áit" is a fem. noun, the pronoun "sé" which represents it is masculine, because it refers, not to the word "place," but to the thing, that is, to the place itself.

Go roiḃ maiṫ agat.

djwebb2021 wrote:

Is é ainm a bhí air ná Séadna...
Sin é cúis...

These are normal Irish phrases.

Mar sin, an féidir (s)é a ḋ'úsáid lé gaċ aon focal baininscneaċ, nú an úsáidtear é i Is é ainm a ḃí air ná Séadna agus Sin é cúis ó's rud firinscneaċ an ainm-ḟocal eile (e.g. Séadna i Sé ainm a bhí air ná Séadna)?

djwebb2021 · **Joined:** Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am **Posts:** 1324

Sin é mo thuairim - this noun is usually used with é. And the same for barúil.

djwebb2021 · **Joined:** Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am **Posts:** 1324

Ċóṁ fada agus ṫuigim-se an sgéal, is cirte cóiṁ-réiḋteaċ a ḋéanaṁ idir an ainm agus foṫ-ḟaisnéis, aċt tá liosta beaga d'ḟoclaiḃ ann go n-úsáidṫar le h-É iad i gcóṁnaiḋe, go mór mór nuair a ḃíonn tú ag laḃairt go geinearálta, gan béim ar an ainm féin, seaċas an rud go dtagarṫar an ainm do.

Séamus O'Neill · **Posted:** Thu 07 Nov 2024 4:41 pm

Táim díreach i ndiaidh frása eile 'o dh'fheiscint ná roibh oir eólas agam:

Quote:

ó'n uair gur tusa a bhíonn aig siubhal na dtíortha, is ort a théigheann scéal nua

An féidir an líne 'o dh'aistriú mar so: 'from the moment that you [it was you that] walked the land[s], it your responsibility [you must] tell a new story'?

djwebb2021 · **Joined:** Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am **Posts:** 1324

Séamus O'Neill wrote:

Táim díreach i ndiaidh frása eile 'o dh'fheiscint ná roibh oir eólas agam:

Quote:

ó'n uair gur tusa a bhíonn aig siubhal na dtíortha, is ort a théigheann scéal nua

An féidir an líne 'o dh'aistriú mar so: 'from the moment that you [it was you that] walked the land[s], it your responsibility [you must] tell a new story'?

From the time when you (habitually) walk through the countries/lands, a new story happens to you????

If that's not right - and I think Labhrás and Errigal would be better commenters - then please let me know.

I think the Irish habitual produced the Hiberno-Irish "do be", which makes it easier to understand. From the moment you do be wandering the globe, a new story does be happening to you!

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Confusing phrase in Kerry Irish

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