The (-) in the word ḃ(-)fuíoll basically just represents that you could write ḃ-fuíoll or ḃfuíoll, albeit the latter being more common[/quote]

I was wondering if I wanted to shorten, "For those who are lost", to, "For the lost". That would look like, "Ar son na caillte", instead of, "Ar son na muintire (atá) caillte"?

I was wondering if I wanted to shorten, "For those who are lost", to, "For the lost". That would look like, "Ar son na caillte", instead of, "Ar son na muintire (atá) caillte"?

Unfortunately not. Unlike English, where 'the lost' can act as a noun, in Irish it is just an adjective, meaning that it works to modify another word. You would have to say something like Ar son na mairbh 'For the sake of the dead', but that is a bit less euphemistic and might not be what you're looking for.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar

I wasn’t aware of ‘survivor’ as an extended meaning of ‘fuíoll’ in certain contexts, and I see that the dictionary (FGB) has ‘fuíoll áir’ = ‘survivor(s) of battle’. I thought at first there wasn’t sufficient context in the tattoo to understand ‘fuíoll’ as ‘survivors’, but I suppose the other part referring to the dead provides context enough.
However, from the two examples in FGB and a couple I’ve seen elsewhere, I think it should be ‘Ar son an fhuíll (singular), not ‘Ar son na bhfuíoll’ (plural). In both examples in FGB ‘fuíoll áir’ = ‘survivor(s) of battle’, and ‘fuíoll na Féinne’ = ‘last of the Fianna’, ‘fuíoll’ is singular, covering both the singular and the plural of the English.

I think you're right that it would have to be in the singular (comparable to "the remainder of the Fianna" as opposed to "the remainders of the Fianna"), but I wonder can an fhuíll be used to mean "survivors" without a qualifying noun in the genitive. "The remainder of the Fianna" implies "the survivors" whereas just "the remainder" doesn't.

Unfortunately not. Unlike English, where 'the lost' can act as a noun, in Irish it is just an adjective, meaning that it works to modify another word. You would have to say something like Ar son na mairbh 'For the sake of the dead', but that is a bit less euphemistic and might not be what you're looking for.[/quote]

So if I were to say, Ar son na muintire atá caillte, without the parenthesis on atá, it would be like saying, 'For the gone/left ones'? Whereas with the parenthesis it would be like, 'For those who are gone'? I like the euphemism with 'caillte' referring to those lost/passed away. How would I put together this phrase a bit shortened to, 'For the lost'? Thanks for the help, this is all very new to me.

Hello, thanks for the reply. So I see that 'an fhuíll' is singular and, 'na bhfuíoll' is plural. Is the difference between 'an' and 'na' have to do with it being singular or plural?

I think there was a little confusion. Just like in English, adding parenthesis doesn't change the meaning. I simply meant that Ar son na muintire caillte means 'For the sake of the dead ones', and Ar son na muintire atá caillte is 'For the sake of the ones who are dead'.



I definitely see what you mean. I probably should have done a little more research before providing fuíoll, especially given that every context that I could find the word being used in had it in a genitive construction (usually fuíoll na féinne or fuíoll (an) áir, I just don't see how marthanóir could work in this context, as it seems to be used only in legal contexts. In general, I feel like dictionary entries for this word seem to be generally slim (Dinneen doesn't even list the word at all), and the few words that do seem to be associated with this meaning only do so in very specific contexts, such as with fuíoll. Also, just to clarify, wouldn't an fuíll be a non-standard form of the word, the standard being an fuíoll?

Also wanted to correct my previous mistake regarding the older spelling, as fuíoll actually used to be spelled fuiġeall.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar

Ha! I had made that very same point in my post above when talking about context, but the original version of the post was twice as long, and in the process of editing it down I must have cropped that part out inadvertently. And I had suggested Ar son na ndaoine a tháinig slán for ‘For the survivors’
Bit long for the tattoo, I suppose, but that’s the most usual translation of survivors.
Séamus, Ade wrote ‘an fhuíll’ (genitive singular) - not ‘an fhíll’.

Hi all, so I wanted to confirm that the phrases would be: 'For those who are gone' as 'Ar son na muintire atá caillte' (For the sake of the ones who are dead). The second being: 'For the survivors' as 'Ar son an fhuíll' (For the rest/remainder). Is this correct/accurate? Also, what would this look like in the old spelling/traditional font? I am leaning towards getting the tattoo done in said font. Thanks again everybody!