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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 12:38 am 
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I'd say that taraí could be a plural influenced by words like leanbh and banbh (pl. leanaí and banaí).


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 1:41 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
But Learning Irish has taraí and all authors of Muskerry Irish have tairbh...


A bit confusing.
In "Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" it is /tar´iv´/ (tairbh) in genitive singular but /ta'ri:/ (taraí) in plural.


Thank you, that would explain the variation in pronunciation by AnLoingseach and the forms given in LASID. Do you know if this pronunciation distinction holds true for other words like this that form the plural by slenderizing (sorry if this is in the book, I don't have my copy at the moment)?

AnCanúnaighe wrote:
I'd say that taraí could be a plural influenced by words like leanbh and banbh (pl. leanaí and banaí).


That's an interesting theory. It makes sense given that all three words end in -ḃ, that there's a epenthetic vowel inserted between the final sounds and that the genitives are formed by slenderizing the root.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 2:17 am 
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Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:12 am 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:33 am 
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Séamus O'Neill wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

It hasn't been published, but I have transcribed most of it at https://corkirish.wordpress.com/the-bib ... ork-irish/


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:39 am 
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Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
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Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

It hasn't been published, but I have transcribed most of it at https://corkirish.wordpress.com/the-bib ... ork-irish/


Thank you

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:46 pm 
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Posts: 1793
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
But Learning Irish has taraí and all authors of Muskerry Irish have tairbh...


A bit confusing.
In "Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" it is /tar´iv´/ (tairbh) in genitive singular but /ta'ri:/ (taraí) in plural.


Thank you, that would explain the variation in pronunciation by AnLoingseach and the forms given in LASID. Do you know if this pronunciation distinction holds true for other words like this that form the plural by slenderizing (sorry if this is in the book, I don't have my copy at the moment)?


There is:
GChD wrote:
192 Cuirtear i: -aí (nó i:xa -íocha i gcás amháin) le roinnt bheag focal san iolra in ionad av -bh, -amh na bunfhoirme; is é leanbh an ceann is coitianta acu:
Uatha l´anəv leanbh Iolra l´a'ni: leanai
G l´ın´ıv´ linbh G l´anəv leanbh

Other examples there:
banbh (bainbh, banaí)
tórramh (tórraimh, tórríocha), and of course
tarbh (tairbh, taraí).


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 4:06 pm 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
Go roiḃ míle maiṫ agaiḃ

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 6:45 pm 
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Táim go díreaċ t'réis an abairt seo i nGaeḋilg Aṁlaoiḃ Uí Loingsiġ a ṫaḃairt fé ndeara:

Ach áireofar taraí agus bulláin ar bheithíg.

Fágann san go ḃfuil mion-deifriḋeaċtaí idir ċainnteoirí deifreaṁla 'sa Ṁuṁain, níḋ náċ iongnád... Seans maiṫ go mbeaḋ an dá ḟuirm de'n ḟocal ag an t-aon ċainnteoir aṁáin, ó's rud é go nglactar le h-iolarṫaċt fuirmeaċa 'san iolraiḋ...


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PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


djwebb2021 wrote:
Táim go díreaċ t'réis an abairt seo i nGaeḋilg Aṁlaoiḃ Uí Loingsiġ a ṫaḃairt fé ndeara:

Ach áireofar taraí agus bulláin ar bheithíg.

Fágann san go ḃfuil mion-deifriḋeaċtaí idir ċainnteoirí deifreaṁla 'sa Ṁuṁain, níḋ náċ iongnád... Seans maiṫ go mbeaḋ an dá ḟuirm de'n ḟocal ag an t-aon ċainnteoir aṁáin, ó's rud é go nglactar le h-iolarṫaċt fuirmeaċa 'san iolraiḋ...


' ḃ-Fuilęn̄ tú cin̄te, a David, ná roiḃ Pędar Ua Laoġaire a' tęspáint a' t-Sęn-Leitriuġaḋ, gan é a' smaoínęṁ oir a' ḃ-foġraiġęċt? As léir go ḃ-fuil nídh as mó eólas agat oir Phędar Ua Laoġaire a's a chuid oibre 'ná áon duine eile oir a' forum seo (agus dar m' anam, caiṫęd-sa a ṫuil̄ęḋ lęḃair 'o léiġęṁ, aċ', tá a ḟios agat féin cé ċóṁ deocair a's atá sé 'n uair atá a' lęḃar i d' láiṁ agat a's a' foclóir i g-cónaiḋe ' sa' láiṁ eile :LOL: ), aċ' tá a ḟios agam-sa go roiḃ a' Sęna-Leitriuġaḋ 'á dh' úsáid aige i g-cónaiḋe, agus b' ḟéidir ná roiḃ taraí ró-ċoitianta lé n-a linn. Aċ', fós mar aduḃras, tá a ṫuil̄ęḋ eólais agat-sa, agus as dócha go roiḃ a' fuirm eile 'á dh' úsáid ċóṁ maiṫ aige.
(I hope my Irish is comprehensible. If not I can translate it into English or use the Caighdeán, as I tend to use a lot of the older forms.)

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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