It is currently Sat 02 Nov 2024 2:34 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 12:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Aug 2024 11:55 pm
Posts: 26
I'd say that taraí could be a plural influenced by words like leanbh and banbh (pl. leanaí and banaí).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 1:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado
Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
But Learning Irish has taraí and all authors of Muskerry Irish have tairbh...


A bit confusing.
In "Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" it is /tar´iv´/ (tairbh) in genitive singular but /ta'ri:/ (taraí) in plural.


Thank you, that would explain the variation in pronunciation by AnLoingseach and the forms given in LASID. Do you know if this pronunciation distinction holds true for other words like this that form the plural by slenderizing (sorry if this is in the book, I don't have my copy at the moment)?

AnCanúnaighe wrote:
I'd say that taraí could be a plural influenced by words like leanbh and banbh (pl. leanaí and banaí).


That's an interesting theory. It makes sense given that all three words end in -ḃ, that there's a epenthetic vowel inserted between the final sounds and that the genitives are formed by slenderizing the root.

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 2:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1305
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1305
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

It hasn't been published, but I have transcribed most of it at https://corkirish.wordpress.com/the-bib ... ork-irish/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


Would you happen to know where Peadar Ua Laoghaire's translation of the bible is available? It probably isn't available for purchase, as I assume it is out of print. I have a copy of An Tiomna Nuadh, and might try to later on get a copy of An Bíobla Naomhtha, but I would definitely refrain if I knew that there was some form or another of it in modern Munster Irish.

It hasn't been published, but I have transcribed most of it at https://corkirish.wordpress.com/the-bib ... ork-irish/


Thank you

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1789
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
But Learning Irish has taraí and all authors of Muskerry Irish have tairbh...


A bit confusing.
In "Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" it is /tar´iv´/ (tairbh) in genitive singular but /ta'ri:/ (taraí) in plural.


Thank you, that would explain the variation in pronunciation by AnLoingseach and the forms given in LASID. Do you know if this pronunciation distinction holds true for other words like this that form the plural by slenderizing (sorry if this is in the book, I don't have my copy at the moment)?


There is:
GChD wrote:
192 Cuirtear i: -aí (nó i:xa -íocha i gcás amháin) le roinnt bheag focal san iolra in ionad av -bh, -amh na bunfhoirme; is é leanbh an ceann is coitianta acu:
Uatha l´anəv leanbh Iolra l´a'ni: leanai
G l´ın´ıv´ linbh G l´anəv leanbh

Other examples there:
banbh (bainbh, banaí)
tórramh (tórraimh, tórríocha), and of course
tarbh (tairbh, taraí).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado
Go roiḃ míle maiṫ agaiḃ

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 6:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1305
Táim go díreaċ t'réis an abairt seo i nGaeḋilg Aṁlaoiḃ Uí Loingsiġ a ṫaḃairt fé ndeara:

Ach áireofar taraí agus bulláin ar bheithíg.

Fágann san go ḃfuil mion-deifriḋeaċtaí idir ċainnteoirí deifreaṁla 'sa Ṁuṁain, níḋ náċ iongnád... Seans maiṫ go mbeaḋ an dá ḟuirm de'n ḟocal ag an t-aon ċainnteoir aṁáin, ó's rud é go nglactar le h-iolarṫaċt fuirmeaċa 'san iolraiḋ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 05 Oct 2024 7:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Bible: Psalm 21:13

Táid gamhna go líonmhar im thímpall,
tairbh ramhra ag cur orm ón uile thaobh.

Douay: Many calves have surrounded me: fat bulls have besieged me.


djwebb2021 wrote:
Táim go díreaċ t'réis an abairt seo i nGaeḋilg Aṁlaoiḃ Uí Loingsiġ a ṫaḃairt fé ndeara:

Ach áireofar taraí agus bulláin ar bheithíg.

Fágann san go ḃfuil mion-deifriḋeaċtaí idir ċainnteoirí deifreaṁla 'sa Ṁuṁain, níḋ náċ iongnád... Seans maiṫ go mbeaḋ an dá ḟuirm de'n ḟocal ag an t-aon ċainnteoir aṁáin, ó's rud é go nglactar le h-iolarṫaċt fuirmeaċa 'san iolraiḋ...


' ḃ-Fuilęn̄ tú cin̄te, a David, ná roiḃ Pędar Ua Laoġaire a' tęspáint a' t-Sęn-Leitriuġaḋ, gan é a' smaoínęṁ oir a' ḃ-foġraiġęċt? As léir go ḃ-fuil nídh as mó eólas agat oir Phędar Ua Laoġaire a's a chuid oibre 'ná áon duine eile oir a' forum seo (agus dar m' anam, caiṫęd-sa a ṫuil̄ęḋ lęḃair 'o léiġęṁ, aċ', tá a ḟios agat féin cé ċóṁ deocair a's atá sé 'n uair atá a' lęḃar i d' láiṁ agat a's a' foclóir i g-cónaiḋe ' sa' láiṁ eile :LOL: ), aċ' tá a ḟios agam-sa go roiḃ a' Sęna-Leitriuġaḋ 'á dh' úsáid aige i g-cónaiḋe, agus b' ḟéidir ná roiḃ taraí ró-ċoitianta lé n-a linn. Aċ', fós mar aduḃras, tá a ṫuil̄ęḋ eólais agat-sa, agus as dócha go roiḃ a' fuirm eile 'á dh' úsáid ċóṁ maiṫ aige.
(I hope my Irish is comprehensible. If not I can translate it into English or use the Caighdeán, as I tend to use a lot of the older forms.)

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 73 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group