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PostPosted: Fri 24 May 2024 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue 07 May 2024 3:50 pm
Posts: 60
I've been learning Irish from multiple different sources, just diving in head first you might say. Often times, the pronunciation of a word given to me differs from the pronunciation I would like to use based on phonetic rules I've collected. I'm making this thread to see if it's okay to pronounce words a certain way, i.e. if there is a dialect where the most phonetic (under the rules I will state as they come up) are utilized.

I like the simplicity in Combat Wombat's pronunciation guide where he says Aidh \ Eidh \ Idh just make an \ee\ sound; and that aigh at the start of a word is \eye\ and at the end of a word is usually \ee\.

The structure of each question will be

[Irish word] ---> [Pronunciation I have written in my notes]
[How I would like to pronounce this word based on phonetic rules i've learned from various places]


Glacadh --> \Ghla-cah\
Could I pronounce this \Glac-ahg\? the broad dh looks like a g to me

chífead --> \hyeehad\
So... the f in this context makes an \h\ sound? I've not come across this anywhere as a phonetic rule yet, but this often seems to be what is happening.



méid --> \meyd\
the slender d makes me want to say \meydj\

teitheadh --> \cheh-heh\
tei makes \cheh\ perfectly well and good. headh to me looks like \h-ah-g\ since the dh is broad or maybe \h-ah-y\ because that broad slender stuff seems like a rule that's often broken

B'fhéidir --> \Bey-der\
again, the d is slender so to me this looks like \beyd-jer\

Okay... This is the last post I'm going to make today! Sorry if I'm getting annoying.. I realize I'm a noob at this but stick with me and you will see my improvement.. I guarantee it!!

Shalom


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PostPosted: Wed 12 Jun 2024 9:32 am 
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Joined: Wed 12 Jun 2024 6:12 am
Posts: 1
In your experience learning Irish, have you found certain pronunciation rules or sources to be more reliable or consistent than others? If so, could you share some examples or insights that have helped you navigate the complexities of Irish pronunciation?


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PostPosted: Wed 12 Jun 2024 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1744
msv133 wrote:
Glacadh --> \Ghla-cah\
Could I pronounce this \Glac-ahg\? the broad dh looks like a g to me

(Too) short answer: yes.

Long answer: It depends.
Broad dh was originally in Old Irish a fricative dental sound /⁠ð/ (like th in English "thus").
Today, it is still a fricative sound, but a velar fricative , /ɣ/, just like broad Irish gh (like a Spanish g between vowels, like Modern Greek ɣ, gamma, like Arab غ, ghain, etc.)
So much for initial dh.
All pronunciation rules for lenited consonants apply only for initial consonants.

But at the end of words - as part of endings - pronunciation depends very much on the function of the ending but also on dialect and on its environment (pronoun or noun subject).
This is especially true for the ending -adh.
Glacadh = one accepted, something was accepted (autonomous form, past tense), pronounced /əx/ ("ukh", "glakukh") in Kerry, but, it is /əg/ "uhg" in West Cork. So, yes, here you can say your "glakahg".

But not so in other forms, e.g.:
Glacadh = accepting, acceptance (verbal noun), pronunciation /ə/ ("uh", "glakuh" in all of Munster and Connacht but in Ulster /u/, "oo", "glakoo")
Ghlacadh sé = he used to accept (imperfect), pronunciation /əx/ (in all Munster dialects, but /ət´/ elsewhere in Ireland if there is "sé, sí, sinn, sibh, siad" as subject, but different in case a noun is subject).
The same for ghlacfadh sé = he would accept (conditional), dá nglacadh sé (past subjunctive) and for glacadh sé (imperative)

Quote:
chífead --> \hyeehad\
So... the f in this context makes an \h\ sound? I've not come across this anywhere as a phonetic rule yet, but this often seems to be what is happening.

f in féin is often pronounced /h/, as well.
It is a late development. Originally, of course, it was /f/ and is still so in some dialects.
But in most verbs and in most dialects the future/conditional endings have generally /h/.
(except for -f(e)ar, -f(e)á, -f(a)í (and -ófar, ófá, -ófaí), which are usually pronounced with an /f/ because these endings have a different etymology)

Quote:
méid --> \meyd\
the slender d makes me want to say \meydj\

The intensity of slenderness depends on dialect. In Munster, it is somewhat weak: there is a slender palatal d and a broad dental d.
I’d say, a slender Munster d is more similar to an English d than the broad one which is much "thicker".
In Ulster, slender d would be a "dj" sound.

Quote:
teitheadh --> \cheh-heh\
tei makes \cheh\ perfectly well and good. headh to me looks like \h-ah-g\ since the dh is broad or maybe \h-ah-y\ because that broad slender stuff seems like a rule that's often broken

Same as above for glacadh. (The t in teitheadh is again just a palatal t in Munster, a "t(y)", no "ch" as it is in Ulster.)

Quote:
B'fhéidir --> \Bey-der\
again, the d is slender so to me this looks like \beyd-jer\

Same as above for méid.


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