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 Post subject: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 7:05 pm 
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Location: Carraig Uí Leighin
Does anyone know the state of Irish in an Ghaeltacht na nDéise currently?

I live some 50 minutes or so away and went for a spin today for a walk on a few of the beaches.

I was a little disappointed to not have encountered much Irish 'on the street' despite going into the local Spar to grab a coffee which was 'busy enough'. There was an English first approach at the counter which was disappointing. I encountered a few walkers at An Coinigéar, another few at Cé Heilbhic. I later took a spin to An Sean Phobal and the Maytown Bay Beach (Trá Bhaile Mhic Airt) which was empty (and beautifully so!).

With all that said, I was only out for a walk and a spin, but I did not get the feeling that most people I encountered were using Irish. I wondered if possibly they too were visitors for the day from nearby towns (Dungarvan, Youghal etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 7:11 pm 
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Maolra wrote:
Does anyone know the state of Irish in an Ghaeltacht na nDéise currently?

I live some 50 minutes or so away and went for a spin today for a walk on a few of the beaches.

I was a little disappointed to not have encountered much Irish 'on the street' despite going into the local Spar to grab a coffee which was 'busy enough'. There was an English first approach at the counter which was disappointing. I encountered a few walkers at An Coinigéar, another few at Cé Heilbhic. I later took a spin to An Sean Phobal and the Maytown Bay Beach (Trá Bhaile Mhic Airt) which was empty (and beautifully so!).

With all that said, I was only out for a walk and a spin, but I did not get the feeling that most people I encountered were using Irish. I wondered if possibly they too were visitors for the day from nearby towns (Dungarvan, Youghal etc.)


Gaeltacht na nDéise is the right thing to say. *An Ghaeltacht na nDéise would have two definite articles (there's a rule on that).

As far as I know, it's a Category B Gaeltacht, which means between 30% and 70% of people use Irish every day, but this includes children who have to speak Irish in class and those who speak a little bit of Irish with neighbours. The only Category A Gaeltacht Areas are in Galway, Donegal and Kerry (over 70% Irish-speaking, which in itself would have been classed as a breac-Ghaeltacht back in the day). The Category C Gaeltacht areas are between 10% of 30% and are typified by Cape Clear or South Kerry and are basically in the Galltacht already.

That said, all the Gaeltacht areas do have a minority of people who can teach Irish in schools, and who are better speakers than speakers in the Galltacht, so I don't see any value in constantly redrawing the boundaries.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 7:18 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Maolra wrote:
Does anyone know the state of Irish in an Ghaeltacht na nDéise currently?

I live some 50 minutes or so away and went for a spin today for a walk on a few of the beaches.

I was a little disappointed to not have encountered much Irish 'on the street' despite going into the local Spar to grab a coffee which was 'busy enough'. There was an English first approach at the counter which was disappointing. I encountered a few walkers at An Coinigéar, another few at Cé Heilbhic. I later took a spin to An Sean Phobal and the Maytown Bay Beach (Trá Bhaile Mhic Airt) which was empty (and beautifully so!).

With all that said, I was only out for a walk and a spin, but I did not get the feeling that most people I encountered were using Irish. I wondered if possibly they too were visitors for the day from nearby towns (Dungarvan, Youghal etc.)


Gaeltacht na nDéise is the right thing to say. *An Ghaeltacht na nDéise would have two definite articles (there's a rule on that).

As far as I know, it's a Category B Gaeltacht, which means between 30% and 70% of people use Irish every day, but this includes children who have to speak Irish in class and those who speak a little bit of Irish with neighbours. The only Category A Gaeltacht Areas are in Galway, Donegal and Kerry (over 70% Irish-speaking, which in itself would have been classed as a breac-Ghaeltacht back in the day). The Category C Gaeltacht areas are between 10% of 30% and are typified by Cape Clear or South Kerry and are basically in the Galltacht already.

That said, all the Gaeltacht areas do have a minority of people who can teach Irish in schools, and who are better speakers than speakers in the Galltacht, so I don't see any value in constantly redrawing the boundaries.


Thanks for the point re: Gaeltacht na nDéise vs. An Ghaeltacht na nDéise.

Would you have any recommended sites/articles re: the categorisations?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 7:35 pm 
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Yes: https://www.cogg.ie/wp-content/uploads/ ... ltacht.pdf

I see the thresholds are 66% and 44%, not 70% and 30%.

It says: Co. Waterford
The three electoral divisions in the Waterford Gaeltacht should be included in Category C according to Census data. The census statistics show, however, that Irish language use in electoral division An Rinn (#CSO: 25034) is similar to the profile for Category B (43% are daily speakers). Indeed, this electoral division is where the majority of Irish-speaking social networks in the area are based: 16% of families were awarded the full SLG grant in 2003/4. The profiles of Aird Mhór (#CSO: 25019) and Baile Mhac Airt (#CSO: 25020) are more sociolinguistically consistent with the Category C profile. As with An Spidéal in Conamara, the Irishspeaking networks in An Rinn are under demographic pressure due to its physical proximity to an expanding urban area, in this case Dungarvan. It is recommended, however, that since this Gaeltacht region only extends over a small geographic area it be treated as a single unit and included in Category B.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 7:39 pm 
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Garmna in Co. Galway is 92% Irish-speaking.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 8:00 pm 
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You will notice the area names in the Category A B and C division are hard to understand. They're not the village names or townland names, but I think, the electoral division names. I think Múscraí falls under Gort na Tiobratan in that list. The strongest Kerry Gaeltacht is Cill Chuain, at 79.8% Irish-speaking. I don't know what village that would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb 2024 3:48 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
You will notice the area names in the Category A B and C division are hard to understand. They're not the village names or townland names, but I think, the electoral division names. I think Múscraí falls under Gort na Tiobratan in that list. The strongest Kerry Gaeltacht is Cill Chuain, at 79.8% Irish-speaking. I don't know what village that would be.


I'm not sure myself which village that would be. Possibly, Feohanagh, Murreagh.

I was in Ceantar na nOileán in Connemara a few days ago and it was almost 100% Irish everywhere I turned (shops, bars, cafes, on the street etc.) which was lovely and was not confined to older speakers.

I was also in Ballyferriter in Corca Dhuibhne two or three weeks ago and didn't hear much Irish on the street, though there were very few people on the street to be heard! The hotel was closed (out of season), and the pub only had three or four people in it at the time I was there, but they were using English sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb 2024 9:07 pm 
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Maolra wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
You will notice the area names in the Category A B and C division are hard to understand. They're not the village names or townland names, but I think, the electoral division names. I think Múscraí falls under Gort na Tiobratan in that list. The strongest Kerry Gaeltacht is Cill Chuain, at 79.8% Irish-speaking. I don't know what village that would be.


I'm not sure myself which village that would be. Possibly, Feohanagh, Murreagh.

I was in Ceantar na nOileán in Connemara a few days ago and it was almost 100% Irish everywhere I turned (shops, bars, cafes, on the street etc.) which was lovely and was not confined to older speakers.

I was also in Ballyferriter in Corca Dhuibhne two or three weeks ago and didn't hear much Irish on the street, though there were very few people on the street to be heard! The hotel was closed (out of season), and the pub only had three or four people in it at the time I was there, but they were using English sadly.

Most Gaeltacht areas are villages and hamlets. I'm not aware of any actual "towns" or proper urban settings. So hoping to hear "Irish on the street" may be a bit forlorn, and it will often come down to whether tourists are in. If you want to hear Irish, you really need to speak to people in the area in their homes. It's the families and the family networks that maintain the Irish there, not the shops, cafés and "the street". Maybe if you went into the Údarás na Gaeltachta office in the areas you mentioned, you could speak Irish to them there, and they could tell you more about the survival of Irish in those areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb 2024 9:39 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Maolra wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
You will notice the area names in the Category A B and C division are hard to understand. They're not the village names or townland names, but I think, the electoral division names. I think Múscraí falls under Gort na Tiobratan in that list. The strongest Kerry Gaeltacht is Cill Chuain, at 79.8% Irish-speaking. I don't know what village that would be.


I'm not sure myself which village that would be. Possibly, Feohanagh, Murreagh.

I was in Ceantar na nOileán in Connemara a few days ago and it was almost 100% Irish everywhere I turned (shops, bars, cafes, on the street etc.) which was lovely and was not confined to older speakers.

I was also in Ballyferriter in Corca Dhuibhne two or three weeks ago and didn't hear much Irish on the street, though there were very few people on the street to be heard! The hotel was closed (out of season), and the pub only had three or four people in it at the time I was there, but they were using English sadly.



Most Gaeltacht areas are villages and hamlets. I'm not aware of any actual "towns" or proper urban settings. So hoping to hear "Irish on the street" may be a bit forlorn, and it will often come down to whether tourists are in. If you want to hear Irish, you really need to speak to people in the area in their homes. It's the families and the family networks that maintain the Irish there, not the shops, cafés and "the street". Maybe if you went into the Údarás na Gaeltachta office in the areas you mentioned, you could speak Irish to them there, and they could tell you more about the survival of Irish in those areas.


That is not entirely true. I spend a lot of time in the Gaeltacht 'villages' and whilst they are villages, they are (in some cases) significant in size enough and the streets can be bustling.

Take Carraroe (An Cheathrú Rua): in the centre of the village, there is a pub, two restaurants, pizza take away, bus stops, people out walking (as in keeping fit), a supermarket where Irish is used as the means of communication.

Take Leitir Móir, there is a village centre, a school, a centra (shop and deli), pub, sports fields etc.

Down the road from Leitir Móir, on the next island, there is a nice café etc.

Take An Spidéal: there is a pharmacy, a hairdressers, pubs, small shop, petrol station, church, cafés, book shop, restaurant, an AIB bank branch

Take Ballyferriter: (albeit it's very quiet outside of the tourist season, unlike Connemara IMO), there are two (or three?) pubs, a hotel with a restaurant.

The point of my post was saying that there was indeed a lot of Irish on the street when I was there a few days ago. That is: I was at the pub, there were about 8 people in the pub using Irish. The next morning, I was hungover, I went to the deli - there was lots of Irish being spoken in the shop itself and I was in a queue for a breakfast roll (don't judge me! :D ) with plenty Irish being spoken (by workers in the shop and customers alike).

Google maps link to An Spidéal, as an example. Yes, it's not downtown Manhattan but to say Irish there is contained to 'homes and families' is not accurate. I can't comment regarding other Gaeltacht areas. Ballyvourney and Ballingeary are relatively close to me and I would agree with your comment in relation to them. With that said, there is still a 'main street' in each of them. I have not heard much Irish 'on the street' though, to your point.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2440699,-9.3058727,3a,75y,3.88h,89.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3jnx74_1QHXy1dZXVpO2Hw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu


Last edited by Maolra on Mon 19 Feb 2024 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Mon 19 Feb 2024 12:28 pm 
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Just since we were talking status -- I've done a deep dive recently in the 2022 census: at the ED level there is not a signal Gaeltacht (80% daily speakers outside educational system) or even a Category A (67%+) left in the country. The highest two percentage wise are Leitir Mór and Dún Chaoin, both around 62%. There is no Category B left in Cork, Mayo, Waterford or Meath. The worse part is that, outside of the daily speakers, in the 21 electoral districts that meet Category B status the next biggest groups were, without fail, people who have no Irish or the kids who speak it daily inside school and never outside. The future of the Gaeltacht as an Irish-speaking area ain't looking bright at all.


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