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PostPosted: Wed 07 Jun 2023 9:45 pm 
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In Cnósach Focal ó BB, we read under damhaidreacha (in the footnote) (see dabhaid in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla):
Quote:
'Ná bíodh an fhuil 'na dauidreacha' adéarfí nuair a bhefí a' líona putóg

Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla says "do phutóga a líonadh" means "to fill your stomach". So when people were filling their stomachs, they would say "let's not allow the blood to be in lumps"??? There is something I don't get about this....

Or is this something to with the meaning of "putóg" as pudding?


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jun 2023 8:09 am 
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Pathophysiologically, there is no direct connection between blood clotting and eating. ;)

Except: Sitting too long (e.g. while filling your stomach) with bent knees (or to generalize: resting too long) can cause thrombosis.

So, maybe either a request to hurry up or an apology for eating fast.


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jun 2023 10:55 am 
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I wonder if it shouldn't be "a dhéanfaí". "Don't let the blood be "lumps" that would be made when you are filling your gut." Whatever the hell that means.


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jun 2023 10:54 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
In Cnósach Focal ó BB, we read under damhaidreacha (in the footnote) (see dabhaid in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla):
Quote:
'Ná bíodh an fhuil 'na dauidreacha' adéarfí nuair a bhefí a' líona putóg

Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla says "do phutóga a líonadh" means "to fill your stomach". So when people were filling their stomachs, they would say "let's not allow the blood to be in lumps"??? There is something I don't get about this....

Or is this something to with the meaning of "putóg" as pudding?


Almost definitely to be read as "pudding" I should think, at least on the surface level. Specifically black pudding which traditionally gets its darker colour from the inclusion of animal blood in the mix. So the literal intention of the phrase might be a simple warning not to allow blood clots to enter the mix as these would be particularly unappetising.

Perhaps there is some connection between traditional casings for such pudding and the stomach of an animal. For example, black pudding is strikingly close to Scottish haggis, which is traditionally boiled in a sheep's stomach, if I'm not mistaken. It seems likely to me that before the days of plastic wrapping that black and white pudding would also have been prepared in such a way. So perhaps the translation in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla is not to be read as "to fill your [own] stomach" by eating, but rather to fill the stomach of an animal with pudding during food preparation. A more direct translation of "do phutóga a líonadh" might be "filling your pudding [into a container]".

This, of course, is conjecture on my part. There could very well be an idiomatic use of "putóg" to mean one's own stomach. If there is, though, I'm unaware of it. It could even be the case that the act of stuffing pudding into an animal's stomach for food preparation has been metaphorically connected with filling one's own stomach while eating. I suppose it wouldn't be a completely unreasonable leap to make, then, that "let's not let clotted blood into the pudding" could be interpreted idiomatically as "let's not eat poor quality food when feasting" or something of the like, in the same way that "strike while the iron is hot" has a clear blacksmithing interpretation, but is intended to be understood metaphorically in most cases. Still, such an interpretation would rely on an understood direct translation about stuffing pudding into a stomach.

An interesting phrase, in any case. :??:


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jun 2023 11:57 pm 
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Thank you, Ade. I wish, while going through Cnósach Focal, I had made a list of all entries that are exactly translated in FGB (Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla). It is a subject of academic interest how Ó Dónaill's dictionary was arrived at, and it is clear that regional word lists were used, and that Cnósach Focal is one of Ó Dónaill's sources. I mentioned previously that "is uiriste rubairt air" in Cnósach Focal is mirrored by "is furasta forbairt air" in Ó Dónaill. I wish he had given attribution (Dinneen's dictionary does make attribution; entries from Cnósach Focal are tagged "By.". i.e. Ballyvourney, in Dinneen's dictionary - maybe Ó Dónaill took them from Dinneen's dictionary and not straight from Cnósach Focal?).

Anyway, it seems that Ó Dónaill's entry for "do phutóga a líonadh" may have come straight from Cnósach Focal, and maybe Ó Dónaill simply misunderstood it (as I did)?

There is a weird story in Scéalaíocht Amhlaoibh (=Amhlaoibh Ó Loingsigh) p136:

Quote:
Shocraíodar suas iad féin chun dul fé dhéin a' gharsúin airís, agus is dócha go raibh tuairim ag an ngarsún go dtiocfaidís. Do bhí sé ceartaithe 'na gcóir. Do bhí seana-chat muar aige, agus do mhairbh sé an cat; thairrig sé a chuid fola, agus bhuin ceann dosna putóga amach as. Do líon sé an fhuil isteach sa phutóig; do chas ar scórnaig a mháthar í, go daingean, agus nuair a bhuaileadar chuige - an bheirt fhear:
"Sea, a Sheáin," aduaradar - (bhí aithne acu ar a' ngarsún) - "d'imiris cleas orainn iné agus díolfair as!"
"Ná bíodh aon mhilleán agaibh orm," aduairt Seáinín, "b'í mo mháthair fé ndeár é, agus má b'í," aduairt sé, "túrfadsa sásamh anois díbh." (Do bhí an rud socair idir é féin agus an tseanabhean do mháthair dó). Do riug sé ar rásúir agus do tharraig, mar dhea, ar scórnaig na seana-mhná í. An phutóg a gheárr sé, agus siúd amach an fhuil - fuil an chait. Thit a' tseanabhean mín marbh nuair a bhí deire a cuid fola túrtha aici, mar dhea.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Jun 2023 3:45 am 
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That is a weird story! 8O
Nuances hard to understand.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Jun 2023 8:23 am 
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The entry for "putóg" in FGB is divided into two points: 1) guts, intestines, 2) pudding.
"Do phutóga a líonadh, to fill one's stomach" is under point 1) and refers to a person's intestines (hence do phutóga), to eating. (Probably the same as German "sich den Magen vollschlagen")

Sausages and puddings are also filled into intestines and stomachs (hence the Irish word putóg for pudding).

So, that "ina dabhaidreacha" phrase could be a humorous cross reference to (black) pudding production.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jun 2023 6:04 pm 
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Thank you, Labhrás, that makes sense now.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Jun 2023 12:35 pm 
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I would have read this as simply advice on making puddings:

Don't let the blood be lumpy/thick when filling puddings.

As it's a common mistake when make blood pudding, I remember even my grandmother avoiding it.

Funnily I've only ever heard dabhaideanna, never dabhaidreacha.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Jun 2023 4:26 pm 
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I wish there were a way to "tick up" a post on this forum, without having to post a replay. Yes: interesting that An Londubh has a family history of making black pudding. I have no idea how to make it But in England it is known as a mainly northern thing. B'fhéidir gurb in é cúis ná fuil aon chuir amach agam ar conas na putóga dhéanamh....


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