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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun 2022 6:18 pm 
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Pokitren wrote:
Very interesting story, thank you! I didn't realize that a family could fight for 3 years just for the right to write in Irish. But what struck me was the decision of the church court. Always the churchmen know best! :bash: Good thing there is an appeals court.


Potikren, Saoirse has misled you.
This is a case about a grave IN ENGLAND. The Church of England wanted a grave IN ENGLAND to have a gravestone IN ENGLISH (at no point did the CofE oppose having Irish on the gravestone, but they wanted an English translation on there too). This has nothing to do with the laws regarding gravestones in Irish in Ireland. Is there any evidence that the person whose grave it was had refused to integrate in England? Maybe he just had IRA-supporting relatives who wanted to turn this event into a stunt.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun 2022 5:34 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Pokitren wrote:
Very interesting story, thank you! I didn't realize that a family could fight for 3 years just for the right to write in Irish. But what struck me was the decision of the church court. Always the churchmen know best! :bash: Good thing there is an appeals court.


Potikren, Saoirse has misled you.
This is a case about a grave IN ENGLAND. The Church of England wanted a grave IN ENGLAND to have a gravestone IN ENGLISH (at no point did the CofE oppose having Irish on the gravestone, but they wanted an English translation on there too). This has nothing to do with the laws regarding gravestones in Irish in Ireland. Is there any evidence that the person whose grave it was had refused to integrate in England? Maybe he just had IRA-supporting relatives who wanted to turn this event into a stunt.


With respect, I didn't suggest for a second that this grave was in Ireland. I even linked to an article giving background to the case. djwebb, I also find it incredibly distasteful that you would suggest anything about the dead woman or her family without any reason to throw in such prejudice. There was precedent in the graveyard for languages other than English. The discrimination was about the Irish language, nothing else.

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun 2022 8:33 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Pokitren wrote:
Very interesting story, thank you! I didn't realize that a family could fight for 3 years just for the right to write in Irish. But what struck me was the decision of the church court. Always the churchmen know best! :bash: Good thing there is an appeals court.


Potikren, Saoirse has misled you.
This is a case about a grave IN ENGLAND. The Church of England wanted a grave IN ENGLAND to have a gravestone IN ENGLISH (at no point did the CofE oppose having Irish on the gravestone, but they wanted an English translation on there too). This has nothing to do with the laws regarding gravestones in Irish in Ireland. Is there any evidence that the person whose grave it was had refused to integrate in England? Maybe he just had IRA-supporting relatives who wanted to turn this event into a stunt.


With respect, I didn't suggest for a second that this grave was in Ireland. I even linked to an article giving background to the case. djwebb, I also find it incredibly distasteful that you would suggest anything about the dead woman or her family without any reason to throw in such prejudice. There was precedent in the graveyard for languages other than English. The discrimination was about the Irish language, nothing else.


I suspect all graves in England have a translation into English at least - and the evidence of this case suggests that the Church required it. No one ever said they couldn't have Irish on the gravestone - only that a translation had to be there too. Coventry isn't in Ireland. And the only reason to insist on Irish only on a gravestone in Coventry is pure prejudice and hatred - and yes, it suggests the family are terrorist sympathisers. I'm sure you realise that. The hatred was going only one way in that case: from the Irish family towards English. Stop the hatred, please!


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun 2022 8:43 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Saoirse wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Pokitren wrote:
Very interesting story, thank you! I didn't realize that a family could fight for 3 years just for the right to write in Irish. But what struck me was the decision of the church court. Always the churchmen know best! :bash: Good thing there is an appeals court.


Potikren, Saoirse has misled you.
This is a case about a grave IN ENGLAND. The Church of England wanted a grave IN ENGLAND to have a gravestone IN ENGLISH (at no point did the CofE oppose having Irish on the gravestone, but they wanted an English translation on there too). This has nothing to do with the laws regarding gravestones in Irish in Ireland. Is there any evidence that the person whose grave it was had refused to integrate in England? Maybe he just had IRA-supporting relatives who wanted to turn this event into a stunt.


With respect, I didn't suggest for a second that this grave was in Ireland. I even linked to an article giving background to the case. djwebb, I also find it incredibly distasteful that you would suggest anything about the dead woman or her family without any reason to throw in such prejudice. There was precedent in the graveyard for languages other than English. The discrimination was about the Irish language, nothing else.


I suspect all graves in England have a translation into English at least - and the evidence of this case suggests that the Church required it. No one ever said they couldn't have Irish on the gravestone - only that a translation had to be there too. Coventry isn't in Ireland. And the only reason to insist on Irish only on a gravestone in Coventry is pure prejudice and hatred - and yes, it suggests the family are terrorist sympathisers. I'm sure you realise that. The hatred was going only one way in that case: from the Irish family towards English. Stop the hatred, please!


What you 'suspect' is irrelevant. The facts are the facts. Here is another article. I think you will find that what I have stated was not based on what I might 'suspect', but rather on what the Church of England court found. From reading other posts here, you clearly do not believe that Irish people can be discriminated against in England and that when they suggest that they are or have been, that they are 'victims'. Thankfully, this court recognised a discriminatory practice and looked at the facts of the situation and overturned the appalling decision made.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cov ... e-57516612

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun 2022 8:57 pm 
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The decision to allow the Irish words without a translation was a miscarriage of justice. Pure wokery on the part of a woke church. The fact is the inclusion of these words was an anti-British political statement, and suggests the dead person in the grave had grabbed everything from England for decades before dying before his disgraceful family stepped in to turn the funeral into an anti-British stunt. I would be just as appalled if a funeral in Ireland was turned into an anti-Irish stunt. And, yes, Saoirse, you do peddle the victimhood as hard as you can go.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun 2022 9:03 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
The decision to allow the Irish words without a translation was a miscarriage of justice. Pure wokery on the part of a woke church. The fact is the inclusion of these words was an anti-British political statement, and suggests the dead person in the grave had grabbed everything from England for decades before dying before his disgraceful family stepped in to turn the funeral into an anti-British stunt. I would be just as appalled if a funeral in Ireland was turned into an anti-Irish stunt. And, yes, Saoirse, you do peddle the victimhood as hard as you can go.


I can assure you I am nobody's victim. :rofl:

Thank you for confirming again that you are the one who is prejudiced here. Even the Church of England court agrees that views such as yours are discriminatory. As you clearly are closed to views that do not correspond to yours, regardless of evidence produced, I bid you oíche mhaith and I hope you find some peace.

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