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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep 2021 12:14 pm 
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Dia daoibh,

Táim ag lorg cabhair le conas an ainm 'Earnán' a rá; tá beagáinín eolais ar-líne - ach nílim ro-chinte cé chomh cruinn is ata sé.

Ear-nawn?
Ur-nawn?

Ag smaoineamh faoi mar ainm linbh!

Go raibh mile! :toast:


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep 2021 12:30 pm 
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ag lorg cabhrach (genitive)

Earnán is pronounced /ar'nɑ:n/.

It is pronounced as if "arnán". The e has no effect in this word. The same can be said of all words in ea- and eo-.

You can get a clue from the three dialectal pronunciations of earnáil at https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/earn%c3%a1il, although you have to change the slender l for a broad n to get it exact.

Quote:
Ag smaoineamh faoi mar ainm linbh!


I don't know what this is meant to mean.


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep 2021 12:50 pm 
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Earnan wrote:
Dia daoibh,

Táim ag lorg cabhair le conas an ainm 'Earnán' a rá; tá beagáinín eolais ar-líne - ach nílim ro-chinte cé chomh cruinn is ata sé.

Ear-nawn?
Ur-nawn?

Ag smaoineamh faoi mar ainm linbh!

Go raibh mile! :toast:


Dia dhíbh,
Tá cabhair á lorg agam i dtaobh conas an ainm "Earnán" do r(e)á. Tá beagáinín eólais ar líne air, ach nílim ró-dheimhnitheach cad é an cruinneas atá sé (atá ann??).


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Sep 2021 3:30 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
ag lorg cabhrach (genitive)

Earnán is pronounced /ar'nɑ:n/.

It is pronounced as if "arnán". The e has no effect in this word. The same can be said of all words in ea- and eo-.

You can get a clue from the three dialectal pronunciations of earnáil at https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/earn%c3%a1il, although you have to change the slender l for a broad n to get it exact.


:good:


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Sep 2021 5:28 am 
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I'm not sure if an ainm Earnán is right. Do you need the definite article there? Maybe, because the definite quality of ainm is shown by the Earnán, you don't need the article?


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Sep 2021 2:58 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
I'm not sure if an ainm Earnán is right. Do you need the definite article there? Maybe, because the definite quality of ainm is shown by the Earnán, you don't need the article?


Names (as such) are indefinite in Irish:

Is Earnán é. = He is (an) Earnán, he is named Earnán
gur Earnán is ainm dó = that Earnán is his name

and so:
an t-ainm "Earnán" = the name "Earnán"

but:
in ainm Earnáin = in the name of Earnán


Féach:
Níor neamhoiriúnach an t-ainm 'Fianna' le tabhairt, ina n-aimsir féin, ar bhuíon a bhí ceaptha ar an namhaid iasachta a dhíbirt as Éirinn. (P. Ó Laoghaire)
'Fianna Éireann' a shíolraigh an t-ainm 'Fíníní". (P. Ó Laoghaire)
Tá an t-ainm Rinn Oiriún (Oireamhan) ar scoth i Loch Coirib in aice le Gleann Iar Chonnacht . (T. Ó Máille)
Níl a fhios agam cé as a dtáinig an t-ainm Aill na Croise ... (L. Mac an Iomaire)


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Sep 2021 10:53 pm 
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Yes, you're right Labhrás on the point under discussion here.

Your quotations from Ua Laoghaire are not accurate, however. he wrote:

Níor neamhoireamhnach an ainm "Fiana" le tabhairt, 'n-a n-aimsir féin, ar bhuidhin a bhí ceapaithe ar an namhaid iasachta do dhíbirt a h-Éirinn.

Ua Laoghaire did not use the spelling Ó Laoghaire, and it is disrespectful to disregard this. It is the norm to use the spellings that people use of their own names. If you read any academic paper, e.g. in Éigse, you will see the bibliographies have names with Ó and names with Ua, using the form that the person himself used.


Last edited by djwebb2021 on Sun 26 Sep 2021 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 26 Sep 2021 3:57 am 
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Earnán is ainm do. This is not an example of indefinite use. This is an example where the definite article is not given where the noun is contextually defined. Ainm is a definite noun in this sentence. Compare sentences like Íosa Críosa is Tiarna orainn, where tiarna is a definite noun.


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PostPosted: Sun 26 Sep 2021 8:48 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Your quotations from Ua Laoghaire are not accurate, however. he wrote:


I used examples from corpas.focloir.ie.

djwebb2021 wrote:
Earnán is ainm do. This is not an example of indefinite use. This is an example where the definite article is not given where the noun is contextually defined. Ainm is a definite noun in this sentence. Compare sentences like Íosa Críosa is Tiarna orainn, where tiarna is a definite noun.


My point was: "Earnán" is an indefinite noun here.


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PostPosted: Sun 26 Sep 2021 9:48 am 
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OK. I see. Strange that the corpas would quote a native speaker writing in 1915 as writing in the supposed Official Standard. No other country treats its heritage in this way.


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