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PostPosted: Tue 04 May 2021 1:43 pm 
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There appears to exist a nice version of 'The Parting Glass' in Irish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwtl1gCJ_o). The lyrics as presented in the description are following.

Bhuel, cibe saibhreas a bhí agam,
Tá sé caite ar mo cháirde dhíl;
Agus cibe dochar a rinne mé,
Dom fhéin a rinne mé an dochar sin.
Is na rudai suarach a rinne mé,
Tá siad dearmadta gan mé sa chré.
Só líon go barr an gloine slán;
Oíche mhaith agus aoibhneas daoibh go léir,
Oíche mhaith agus aoibhneas daoibh go léir.

Is iomaí uair i lár an lae,
Go raibh mé ag ól agus mé ar strae;
Ach fuair mé cabhair, nuair a bhí mé thíos,
Agus fuair mé fáilte arais arís.
Ba bhreá liom seans sula a mbíonn mé réidh,
'bheith le mo ghrá gheal ar Inniskea;
Só líon go barr...

Na cairde uilig a bhí agam,
Tá siad brónach go bhfuil mé ag fágáil slán;
Is na cailíní, a bhí i mo chroí,
Bhuel tá mé liom fhéin is mé 'na luí.
Ach tá bóthar fada le taisteal ábó,
Agus tabharfaidh mé an bóthar sin gan stró,
Só líon go barr...

I'm hoping to find some help with a few things.

Starting with the title, shouldn't An Gloine Slán be An Ghloine Shlán instead or is it something dialectical (the author appears to be from Mayo and those who run the channel possibly from Galway)?

A word . Is it derived from English so as it happens sometimes between languages and carries the same meaning? There is an entry of in teanglann.ie, but it doesn't seem to fit there (for comparision, there is also an entry of bhuel which seems to suit in the beginning of the song).

Ar mo cháirde dhíl in the first verse. Shouldn't it be ar mo chairde dile (dropping the final e for rythmic and rhyming purposes)? However, while listening I'd tell that d in dil(e) is lenited. Anything dialectical?

Inniskea in the second verse is possibly Inis Gé Thuaidh or Inis Gé Theas close to the west coast of Mayo, at least I can't find anything more suitable from logainm.ie. Considering that the song is written by a native Mayo person, is there any reason to anglicise it and even differently from Inishkea? Of course there is a chance that lyrics are written down by memory with haste after uploading...

The word ábó in the third verse. With the help of teanglann.ie the closest meaningful thing I can find is abú; could it be so or is there anything better?

And a phrase for which I cannot come up with good enough translation/meaning – tá mé liom fhéin is mé 'na luí. I could think of the first part hinting of being on my own (onwards, after leaving, following the scenario the song carries), but in the second part there seem to be and ina together. Even if it were and i mo, both halves of the phrase together wouldn't make good enough sense for me (even with is -> agus -> while, as, etc). What could that phrase actually mean?

While the lyrics of a song are under discussion, does Irish require all words to be written with capital letters in titles and at the beginning of each line?


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PostPosted: Tue 04 May 2021 4:02 pm 
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Fánaí wrote:
Starting with the title, shouldn't An Gloine Slán be An Ghloine Shlán instead or is it something dialectical (the author appears to be from Mayo and those who run the channel possibly from Galway)?


Gloine is masculine in some dialects, e.g. Maigh Eo.

Quote:
A word . Is it derived from English so as it happens sometimes between languages and carries the same meaning?


Yes, chítear dom gur mar sin é.

Quote:
Ar mo cháirde dhíl in the first verse. Shouldn't it be ar mo chairde dile (dropping the final e for rythmic and rhyming purposes)? However, while listening I'd tell that d in dil(e) is lenited. Anything dialectical?


Dropping phrase final short vowels (pronounced otherwise /ə/) is typical for Maigh Eo.
Why lenition? I don’t know.

Quote:
Inniskea in the second verse is possibly Inis Gé Thuaidh or Inis Gé Theas close to the west coast of Mayo, at least I can't find anything more suitable from logainm.ie. Considering that the song is written by a native Mayo person, is there any reason to anglicise it and even differently from Inishkea? Of course there is a chance that lyrics are written down by memory with haste after uploading...


Inis Gé is probably felt being one area. There's Cnoc Inis Gé on South Inishkea (not: "Cnoc Inis Gé Thíos").
Spelling of English place names vary a lot.
The author was perhaps more accustomed to anglicized place names and therefore not using Inis Gé.

Quote:
The word ábó in the third verse. With the help of teanglann.ie the closest meaningful thing I can find is abú; could it be so or is there anything better?

And a phrase for which I cannot come up with good enough translation/meaning – tá mé liom fhéin is mé 'na luí. I could think of the first part hinting of being on my own (onwards, after leaving, following the scenario the song carries), but in the second part there seem to be and ina together. Even if it were and i mo, both halves of the phrase together wouldn't make good enough sense for me (even with is -> agus -> while, as, etc). What could that phrase actually mean?

While the lyrics of a song are under discussion, does Irish require all words to be written with capital letters in titles and at the beginning of each line?


ábó - no idea, just a filling word, an interjection?
bheith liom féin - to be alone
mé ’na luí - ina could be used generalized (mé ’na, tú ’ na, sé ’na luí)
Tá mé liom féin is (= agus) mé i mo luí = I’m alone when I’m lying

I don’t know much about Irish spelling rules. But lines in poetry are usually written with capital letters.


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PostPosted: Tue 04 May 2021 9:21 pm 
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Bhuel tá mé liom fhéin is mé 'na luí.
Ach tá bóthar fada le taisteal ábó,
Agus tabharfaidh mé an bóthar sin gan stró,
Só líon go barr...


Just adding to what Labhrás said...


Bhuel tá mé liom fhéin = Well I am alone
is mé 'na [i mo] luí = while I am lying down.
What he means is: I am alone in bed.

Ábó = I don't know what that means. It looks like it might have been added to rhyme with "stró".

"Só", and "just", are very common borrowed words in Conamara Irish.


It's a pity they left in the Anglicised place name.


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PostPosted: Wed 05 May 2021 8:14 am 
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Thank you both for helpful words.

It is another obstacle that words may have different genders in dialect, but I guess it is far future when I will have to start worrying about it.


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PostPosted: Wed 12 May 2021 1:16 pm 
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I have problems with 'an gloine slán' as a translation of the parting/farewell glass'. At first sight it appears to be the adjective 'slán', but there's no sense of 'farewell' attached to 'slán' the adj. in FGB, so it should be the noun 'slán' - which is what you'd expect. But it would be in the genitive - 'an gloine sláin/gloine an tsláin'. Maybe it's just another typo - though I doubt it. Googling gives no instances of 'gloine' + 'slán' whichever way you spell it ( proof of nothing, I know). Bríd, have you ever heard of 'an gloine slá(i)n' or anything like it?
Anyway, 'gloine' doesn't seem the most appropriate word to me - I think 'deoch' is better. And there is the old expression in both Scottish Gaelic and Irish 'deoch an dorais'. In fact, De Bhaldraithe has: 'to drink a parting cup' - deoch an dorais a ól. Obviously, if using this the translation would have to be altered a bit.
There's another, slightly less literal translation of the song by the Donegal native speaker, Professor of Irish studies, and sean-nós singer Lillis Ó Laoire. He translates the line 'So fill to me the parting glass' thus: 'Ó tharla anois ag scaradh sinn / go líontar dúinn an cruiscín lán'.

[quote="Labhrás]mé 'na luí could be used generalized (mé 'na, tú 'na,sé 'na luí)[/quote]

I've never heard of such a thing, Labhrás. Does this actually occur? I would simply attribute it to careless copying, typos etc.


Last edited by Errigal on Wed 12 May 2021 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 12 May 2021 2:13 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
I have problems with 'an gloine slán' as a translation of the parting/farewell glass'. At first sight it appears to be the adjective 'slán', but there's no sense of 'farewell' attached to 'slán' the adj. in FGB, so it should be the noun 'slán'. But it would be in the genitive - 'an gloine sláin/gloine an tsláin'. Maybe it's just another typo - though I doubt it. Googling gives no instances of 'gloine' + 'slán' whichever way you spell it ( proof of nothing, I know). Bríd, have you ever heard of 'an gloine slá(i)n' or anything like it?
Anyway, 'gloine' doesn't seem the most appropriate word to me: I think 'deoch' is better. And there is the old expression in both Scottish Gaelic and Irish 'deoch an dorais'.
There's another, slightly less literal translation of the song by the Donegal native speaker, Professor of Irish studies, and sean-nós singer Lillis Ó Laoire. He translates the line 'So fill to me the parting glass' thus: 'Ó tharla anois ag scaradh sinn / go líontar dúinn an cruiscín lán'.

[quote="Labhrás]mé 'na luí could be used generalized (mé 'na, tú 'na,sé 'na luí)[/quote]

I've never heard of such a thing, Labhrás. Does this actually occur? I would simply attribute it to careless copying, typos etc.[/quote]


I didn't question it (neither "gloine slán" nor "mé ina luí") because I had the impression the translator was a native speaker from Mayo.


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PostPosted: Wed 12 May 2021 2:36 pm 
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It just ssys he's a native of Mayo. Nothing about him being a native speaker.


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PostPosted: Wed 12 May 2021 10:08 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
I have problems with 'an gloine slán' as a translation of the parting/farewell glass'. At first sight it appears to be the adjective 'slán', but there's no sense of 'farewell' attached to 'slán' the adj. in FGB, so it should be the noun 'slán' - which is what you'd expect. But it would be in the genitive - 'an gloine sláin/gloine an tsláin'. Maybe it's just another typo - though I doubt it. Googling gives no instances of 'gloine' + 'slán' whichever way you spell it ( proof of nothing, I know). Bríd, have you ever heard of 'an gloine slá(i)n' or anything like it?
Anyway, 'gloine' doesn't seem the most appropriate word to me - I think 'deoch' is better. And there is the old expression in both Scottish Gaelic and Irish 'deoch an dorais'. In fact, De Bhaldraithe has: 'to drink a parting cup' - deoch an dorais a ól. Obviously, if using this the translation would have to be altered a bit.
There's another, slightly less literal translation of the song by the Donegal native speaker, Professor of Irish studies, and sean-nós singer Lillis Ó Laoire. He translates the line 'So fill to me the parting glass' thus: 'Ó tharla anois ag scaradh sinn / go líontar dúinn an cruiscín lán'.

[quote="Labhrás]mé 'na luí could be used generalized (mé 'na, tú 'na,sé 'na luí)[/quote]

I've never heard of such a thing, Labhrás. Does this actually occur? I would simply attribute it to careless copying, typos etc.[/quote]



"Deoch an dorais" - that sounds much better as does "an cruiscín lán" (the jugful), there was a pub in An Spidéal with that name.

No, I've never heard of "an gloine slá(i)n".

in mo luí = I don't know maybe that is not the correct spelling. Personally I'd pronounce it as "L- EYE". While lying down, reclining, especially if you add "siar" to it. Bhí mé i mo luí (?) siar sa leaba/ ar an bhféar etc.....


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PostPosted: Thu 13 May 2021 5:33 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
It just ssys he's a native of Mayo. Nothing about him being a native speaker.


Okay, that’s really another case.

’na luí: I really think I read somewhere that there’s a tendency in some dialect to generalize "ina + lenition" ("in his") for all persons. But I could remember wrong.


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