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 Post subject: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2016 5:05 pm 
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A little grammar question about relative clauses

"the room in which you think they are"

Which of these alternatives are acceptable?

an seomra a mheasann tú ina bhfuil siad
an seomra ina measann tú a bhfuil siad
an seomra a measann tú ina bhfuil siad
an seomra ina measann tú atá siad
an seomra ina measann tú go bhfuil siad


(The first two versions I read in a book by J. McCloskey, Transformational Syntax and Model Theoretic Semantics: A Case Study in Modern Irish .
The last three versions are lacking, so they are probably even less acceptable or plain wrong.


Of course, there are more common alternatives without "ina", too.
an seomra a mheasann tú a bhfuil siad ann
an seomra a measann tú atá siad ann
an seomra a measann tú a bhfuil siad ann
an seomra a measann tú go bhfuil siad ann


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 Post subject: Re: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2016 8:52 pm 
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As a "relatively advanced" (?), generally CO-observant learner, I would use a mheasann tú ina bhfuil siad/a bhfuil siad ann. That's how I remember it anyway, perhaps imperfectly, from GGMB. Not the kind of thing covered in basic grammar books, I suppose.

"Acceptable" :?: I'd imagine every one of those versions can be heard somewhere in the Gaeltacht (as well as ina mheasann tú a bhfuil siad ).


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 Post subject: Re: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2016 11:24 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
As a "relatively advanced" (?), generally CO-observant learner, I would use a mheasann tú ina bhfuil siad/a bhfuil siad ann. That's how I remember it anyway, perhaps imperfectly, from GGMB. Not the kind of thing covered in basic grammar books, I suppose.

"Acceptable" :?: I'd imagine every one of those versions can be heard somewhere in the Gaeltacht (as well as ina mheasann tú a bhfuil siad ).

For what it's worth, this is what I'd say.


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 Post subject: Re: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2016 7:52 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
As a "relatively advanced" (?), generally CO-observant learner, I would use a mheasann tú ina bhfuil siad/a bhfuil siad ann. That's how I remember it anyway, perhaps imperfectly, from GGMB. Not the kind of thing covered in basic grammar books, I suppose.

"Acceptable" :?: I'd imagine every one of those versions can be heard somewhere in the Gaeltacht (as well as ina mheasann tú a bhfuil siad ).


:GRMA:


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 Post subject: Re: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2016 9:16 pm 
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All of these "a measann tú"s have got me confused, for one. What kind of 'a' doesn't lenite? Surely this isn't some kind of feminine possessive?

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 Post subject: Re: ina measann ...
PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2016 9:21 pm 
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Well that was really embarrassing. Please disregard my previous post. I guess I wouldn't recognize an urú if it slapped me in the face :dhera:

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