So, I thought I had this down but now I'm not so sure. Basically I'm not sure when you treat the genitive as an adjective, and put the article in front of both nouns, or when the articlé between them.

So, some examples with my thought process. Using 'library' and 'book'

1) The library's book - leabhar na leabharlainne

Basically, it's a specific library that's owning the book, so it goes between.

2) the library book - an leabhar leabharlainne

This is the one that's getting me. Here, library is describing what type of book, so I treat it as a general adjective phrase, with the article coming before the noun, not between the noun and adjective. Is this correct?

3) library book - leabhar leabharlainne

Same as (2), just not article

4) a library's book - leabhar leabharlainne

Basically no article at all. Conext differentiates between (3) and (4).

Is this thinking right? Specifically number (2).

Maith thú.

Perhaps an easy rule:
If you can rephrase in English with two definite articles (the book of the library) then in Irish the article is between the nouns (leabhar na leabharlainne)
In any other case there is no article between the nouns.

I guess the issue also arises with things that only have one article in English: 'a book of the library' (would that be leabhar de chuid ag an leabharlann?)


I also believe another issue is translating between the 'of' use of the genitive and the Saxon genitive. In English, 'the book of the library' just sounds weird, and it gets confusing going between that and 'the library's book' and such. Sorry if I'm not clear, mobile isn't great for this haha

Also on a mobile, but just to say there used to be a difference between (3) and (4).

Bróg chailín = a girly shoe (a shoe for a girl)

Bróg cailín = a girl's shoe

Some native speakers would still make this distinction.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

That's interesting ALD. Is it solely marked by lenition? Bríd, can you comment on if this is done in Carraroe?

Also, would anyone be kind enough to switch these phrases around to using them as an adjective/Saxon genitive? I'm going to try, but some of them are just confusing me, and I think that's where my issue is lying with the Irish, too:

the book of the library = the library's book = leabhar na leabharlainne
a book of the library
a book of a library
the book of a library


Really, as I said, the whole converting from X of Y to what I would consider normal English usage is what's throwing me. So maybe my issue is with English, not Irish!

I'm crap at genitives.

As far as I know, the genitive case is much less used in Gaeltacht spoken Irish than in written Irish. Many studies on dialects (I can think of An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Uladh, and the book about Tory Irish and that of Ros Goill Irish, and probably many others) say that.
The genitive is mainly used in certain set phrases or in phrases that people often say, but I don't think there are many speakers today who would use the genitive case in speech in all the cases it's required in written Irish.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

... de chuid na leabharlainne



Oh, I thought it is the same. But English isn't my native language.

I'd think: bróg cailín = a shoe for a girl