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 Post subject: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 3:34 pm 
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Hey there I was wondering if anyone could double check some grammar for me, as I'm not huge on my grammar in English let alone Gaeilge.

I take the term 'Mac clann xyz' to mean 'son of clan xyz' or 'son of the clan xyz', is that right? Or am I missing something important out? Does it just sound weird? Tá! :aingeal:


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 4:52 pm 
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Sounds a bit off to me. Since the literal meaning of clann is "offspring" or "descendants", I would expect a partitive expression with de rather than a noun in the genitive. Cf. "fear de chlann Iosrael" (An Bíobla Naofa).


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:19 pm 
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Hmm thanks I was worried about that, does anyone know a Irish term for a broad family collective? Similar to how we would think of a clan in English?


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:29 pm 
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Ó Cibhleacháin wrote:
Hmm thanks I was worried about that, does anyone know a Irish term for a broad family collective? Similar to how we would think of a clan in English?


Actually, would something like 'Mac muintir xyz' work better?


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:31 pm 
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Depending on the context, muintir might work. But I would think you'd run into the same difficulty.

Maybe I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to say. There's a difference between being a member of a group and one of its possessions.

Moreover, my impression is that in Irish, the possessive tends to imply exclusivity. Thus mo chéile vs cara liom.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:37 pm 
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I think I'm confusing my self a bit :stoning:, I was reading about Ogham inscriptions no too long a go and I came cross the formula inscription X MAQI MUCOI Y (X son of the tribe Y), what I'm trying to do is come up with some kind of modern equivalent but instead of 'tribe' some slightly tighter family group?


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:41 pm 
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Isn't this essentially how Ó functions? Cf. Mac Uí Mhathúna "Mr McMahon".


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 5:43 pm 
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I think you're right, I'm just over complicating things


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 10:17 pm 
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Ó Cibhleacháin wrote:
I think you're right, I'm just over complicating things


Though wouldn't 'Mac de fine xyz' work as well? If not a little over complicated?


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar check
PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2015 2:25 am 
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You really need to ask a fluent speaker. None of these constructions sound particularly felicitous to me and I'm not finding any examples in a search of Irish-language corpora.

Regardless, de causes lenition and drops the e before a word that begins with a vowel sound. Since fh is silent, that means de + fine = d'fhine.


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