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 Post subject: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 1:51 pm 
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Could anyone give me a hand with a few phrases containing the Autonomous form of verbs, just to help me get my head around them.

For Example I have one for Táthar , táthar ag rá go ....

I have a few phrases like Ní mar a síltear a bítear , and I sort of understand their usage, but I find having more examples allows me to see better how they are employed in everyday speech.

GRMA.

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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 3:24 pm 
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Something I'm just after reading in Dialann deoraí: Ní dearnadh aon obair inniu ach an oiread[.] (The speaker is a construction labourer and, as it's the week before Christmas, work has ground to a halt. It's an interesting example because the autonomous form covers him as well, and he could've expressed much the same sentiment with ní dhearnamar/ní dhearna muid.)


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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 4:52 pm 
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Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
Could anyone give me a hand with a few phrases containing the Autonomous form of verbs, just to help me get my head around them.

For Example I have one for Táthar , táthar ag rá go ....
It helps me to look at how each word works in the same sentence:

Táthar ag obair air. – It is being worked on.
Níltear ag obair air. – It is not being worked on.
Bítear ag obair air. – It does be worked on.
7rl.

Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
I have a few phrases like Ní mar a síltear a bítear , and I sort of understand their usage, but I find having more examples allows me to see better how they are employed in everyday speech.
Don't forget the séimhiú: Ní mar a shíltear a bhítear. :)


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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 4:55 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
Don't forget the séimhiú: Ní mar a shíltear a bhítear.

I thought Dingle was the last holdout against lenition of the autonomous form in colloquial Irish.


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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 4:59 pm 
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Domhnaillín Breac wrote:
I thought Dingle was the last holdout against lenition of the autonomous form in colloquial Irish.
I'm sure you're right. Most of what I learnt was from a person from West Cork.


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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Mon 19 Oct 2015 10:36 pm 
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Non-lenition of the autonomous is actually really confined to Dún Chaoin. In Paróiste Múrach you'd have lenition like in Cork.

Although given that non-lenition was the historical "norm" there are still some people who obey it in Cork and Paróiste Múrach.

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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2015 12:03 am 
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Thanks for letting us know about that, a Loin Dhuibh!


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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2015 10:09 am 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Non-lenition of the autonomous is actually really confined to Dún Chaoin. In Paróiste Múrach you'd have lenition like in Cork.

Although given that non-lenition was the historical "norm" there are still some people who obey it in Cork and Paróiste Múrach.



I have had people from Paróiste Múrach correct me that I shouldnt use lenition with the autonomous form.

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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct 2015 12:36 pm 
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I would imagine so, I've been told roimh+genitive was wrong near Muiríoch, which is actually a distinctive feature of the Irish of the area. Ive been told dhá bhoin was wrong by grandchildren of a man who never says dhá bhó. Told "taoi" never existed only for later that day at the beach somebody to say "conas taoi?".

I once asked for leite, to be told the word was práiseach, I asked for práiseach literally up the road only to be told it was leite.

General features of an area only get you so far in Irish, you'll always be corrected as people often aren't familiar with speech from other areas or even the reality of speech in their own area

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 Post subject: Re: autonomous form
PostPosted: Tue 01 Dec 2015 1:43 pm 
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Quote:
General features of an area only get you so far in Irish, you'll always be corrected as people often aren't familiar with speech from other areas or even the reality of speech in their own area


Was this like that in earlier centuries or is it an artefact of a language in decline?

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