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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 12:03 pm 
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There is a video on chífidh at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqtGiwb8dJg by Jim Norton, Séamas Ó Neachtain, president of the Philo-Celtic Society and someone who helps run the Gerry Tobin Irish Language School and who has taught there since 2009. He has also published poetry in Irish and a historical novel, Cogadh Dearg.

So he's prominent in Irish learning. He claims to be Irish-American, although his family has been in the US for 5 generations (note: such people are NOT regarded as Irish in Ireland - this is long-running joke - the Plastic Paddy meme).

I pointed out that chífidh is pronounced chíhi, with an H, and his reply is "not in his experience".

Fuaimeanna shows that déanfaidh is pronounced with an H in all three dialects (http://www.fuaimeanna.ie/en/Recordings. ... %A9anfaidh).

The same site has recordings without /f/ for:
atfaidh
bearrfaidh
borrfaidh
bronnfaidh
casfaidh
ceapfaidh
cíorfadih
craolfaidh
cromfaidh
déanfaidh
díolfaidh
dúnfaidh
gobfaidh
iocfaidh
leathfaidh
líonfaidh
múchfaidh
pollfaidh
stadfaidh
tógfaidh
tollfaidh
tuarfaidh
úngfaidh
bainfidh
buailfidh
cinnfidh
crithfidh
cuirfidh
feicfidh
feirfidh
fillfidh
foirbfidh
léimfidh
lingfidh
oirfidh
roinnfidh
séidfidh
sroichfidh
teipfich
titfidh
toilfidh

There is an /f/ in some dialects for the following (as the bh/mh is devoiced to a /f/):
díobhfaidh
snámhfaidh
díbhfidh

Obviously, you can't convince everyone of everything. In his "experience" there is an /f/, even though the three main dialects do not have an /f/. So what is his experience worth? I think there **may be** some smaller dialects with an /f/. I am wondering about the Mayo dialects in this regards, but he didn't raise this.


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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 12:18 pm 
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Jim Norton's Scoilgaeilge site is full of rubbish. There is a glossary for Séadna at https://www.scoilgaeilge.org/lessons/seadna/gluais.htm

He claims braimín means "a little farter". Actually it means "a young colt".
An daighe - he claims this means "to the pang". Actually it means "really, indeed" and refers to An Dagda, a mythological Irish god. Later on he says "don daighe", which is the same thing, means "to the flame".
Do-thíos: ill-housekeeping? No, this means "churlishness".
Draighean: an angry appearance? No, this means "blackthorn".
Driuch báis: a really creepy feeling? No, this means "a death-like appearance".
Duibhe: gloom, malevolence? No, the gsf of "black".
Eiteachas: exception? No, "refusal".
Eiteothá: lies? No, this is eiteófá and is the conditional of "to refuse".
Fálta: hedge? No, this means fachta/faighte, "got, received".
Fiaradh: uncultivated ground? No, this is fíoradh, "horizon".
Geallúna: promiser? No, this is the genitive of geallúint, "promise, pledge".
Mac mallartain: changeling? No, this is mac mallachtain, and is the "the evil one, son of malediction".
Main: meanness? No, this is "inclination".
Mustar: self-sufficiency? No, this is "ostentation".
Oidhe: slaying, violent death, tragedy, ill usage? What is he talking about? There is no such word in Séadna.
Raid leat iad: blow them away? No, "shower them (kisses)", i.e. shower her with kisses in the context in the book.
Scaird: squirt, gush;a lot (of money)? No, this is scárd, "a terrified look".
Táiriúgadh: base, vile? No, this means "an act of scurrilous abuse".
Teinneas: tensions, strain? No, "pain".
Údhálta: fixed, certain, engaged, particular, ear-marked? No, this means "the exact same way or condition".

This man and his school should not be teaching Irish!


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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 6:01 pm 
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I can only comment on modern usage in Munster - but I've only every heard it as a 'h'.
The only times I've come across the 'h' as an actual 'f' sound (outside of those specific combos you mentioned) are in Munster for the future passive and conditional passive and 2nd person singular.
So 'chífidh mé' is always [x'i:hi me:], or also I've heard [k'i:hi me:] (in Kerry iirc), but both with the intervocalic 'h'.

BUT I found something interesting, check out the final comment here from Lughaidh:
Quote:
People say /t'if'i/ or /t'ihi/ (or respectively /t'ifə/ and /t'ihə/ when the following subject is a personal pronoun).

So maybe in Ulster you can get an 'f' there? That said, in Ulster the slender 'ch' is NOT pronounced, rather a 't', and the guy in the video is of course using the slender 'ch' initially, which would be the Munster style.

So it seems to me like he's likely incorrect to some degree.


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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 7:19 pm 
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Well, I expect Lúghaidh is right if he wrote that. I wonder if there are subdialectal differences within Ulster eg Ranafast vs. Tory Island? Norton could have stated where it was from, but his pomposity in referring to his vaunted experience made me post this post. I'm not convinced he knows of any Gaeltacht variation on this. You can also hear déarfainn at https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/d%c3%a9arfainn , with the Ulster pronunciation with an H....


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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 9:16 pm 
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It wouldn’t shock me at all if it’s a dialectal variation - especially with the amount of variation in Irish.
He does seem to be dialectally aware though, as in his screen notes he calls out the terminal “igh” being “ig” in Munster.
You could ask him to clarify where it’s spoken like that? I’d be more than interested to know


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PostPosted: Sat 27 Dec 2025 10:09 pm 
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Well I'm not going to, because it is clear that the vast majority of native speakers have an H there - and if you look at his "school of Irish" - and the ignorance displayed there - I don't think it's important to find out what he thinks on this subject.


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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan 2026 5:05 am 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
I think there **may be** some smaller dialects with an /f/. I am wondering about the Mayo dialects in this regards, but he didn't raise this.


I don't think Mayo Irish generally pronounces the f. Since it was mentioned, I wanted to take this as an opportunity to mention this channel for Mayo Irish: https://www.youtube.com/@patchy642 , who I assume not many people know of. Pádraig Phádraig Ó Raghallaigh is a native speaker of Tourmakeady Irish. He also offers lessons on Italki for anyone beggining or wanting to practice their Irish. Additionally, this channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/dazpatreg) offers a great example of native Mayo (Erris) Irish (though the speaker isn't a native himself).

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan 2026 10:35 pm 
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In the Gweedore and Rannafast areas I’ve only ever heard it pronounced with ‘f’. ‘An Teanga Bheo -Gaeilge Uladh’ gives both ‘f’ and ‘h’ as pronunciations without indicating any regional preferences.


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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jan 2026 1:40 am 
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Errigal wrote:
In the Gweedore and Rannafast areas I’ve only ever heard it pronounced with ‘f’. ‘An Teanga Bheo -Gaeilge Uladh’ gives both ‘f’ and ‘h’ as pronunciations without indicating any regional preferences.

Thank you for confirming that. Áine Ní Bhreisleáin (Gweedore) reads the Ulster words on fuaimeanna, and I thin Feargal McGuigan does for Teanglann? But as you say, both are indicated in An Teanga Bheó.


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