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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013 9:24 pm 
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I am getting a little confused with the direct and indirect relatives for the verb déan. Could someone tell me if these are correct and/or correct them for me? Thanks in advance.

Present Tense

1. a dhéanann = who makes / does

2. nach ndéanann = who doesn't make / do

3. a ndéanann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. nach ndéanann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a dhéanann an obair. = I met the man who does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann an obair. = I met the man who doesn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son doesn't do the work.

Past Tense

1. a rinne = who made / did

2. nach ndearna = who didn't make / do

3. a ndearna a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nach ndearna a mhac = whose son didn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a rinne an obair. = I met the man who did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna an obair. = I met the man who didn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son didn't do the work.


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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013 9:31 pm 
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Ok, I'll answer according to Standard Irish (although I don't like it) -- if you want dialectal forms, tell me ;)

Quote:
Present Tense

1. a dhéanann = who makes / does

2. nach ndéanann = who doesn't make / do

3. a ndéanann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. nach ndéanann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do


right

Quote:
Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a dhéanann an obair. = I met the man who does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann an obair. = I met the man who doesn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son doesn't do the work.


right

Quote:
Past Tense

1. a rinne = who made / did

2. nach ndearna = who didn't make / do

3. a ndearna a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nach ndearna a mhac = whose son didn't make / do


right

Quote:
Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a rinne an obair. = I met the man who did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna an obair. = I met the man who didn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son didn't do the work.


right ! :clap:

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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013 10:19 pm 
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Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
Lughaidh wrote:
-- if you want dialectal forms, tell me ;)
I highly recommend "telling him", so that you can see how this sort of thing would actually be said by native speakers.
Just sayin' …

* Actually, if it's not too much trouble Lughaidh, would you mind posting the Munster version of all this? *
(Or would it be easier for me to try posting this and you could correct my mistakes?)


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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013 10:55 pm 
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Munster versions, sentences would be unchanged outside of the verb forms.
Applies to West Munster and South Déise.
(Northern Déise Irish used to have slightly different versions.)

Present Tense:

1. a dheineann = who makes / does

2. ná deineann = who doesn't make / do

3. a/go ndeineann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. ná deineann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do

Past Tense:

1. a dhein = who made / did

2. nár dhein = who didn't make / do

3. ar/gur dhein a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nár dhein a mhac = whose son didn't make / do

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PostPosted: Fri 19 Jul 2013 12:50 am 
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Go raibh míle maith agat, a Loin Dhuibh! :GRMA:


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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jul 2013 10:08 am 
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In Donegal Irish it is (several versions exist within Donegal btw):

Present Tense

1. a ghníos = who makes / does

2. nach ndéanann = who doesn't make / do

3. a ndéanann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. nach ndéanann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a ghníos an obair. = I met the man who does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach ndéanann an obair. = I met the man who doesn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son doesn't do the work.

Past Tense

1. a rinn = who made / did

2. nach dtearr = who didn't make / do

3. a dtearr a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nach dtearr a mhac = whose son didn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a rinn an obair. = I met the man who did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach dtearr an obair. = I met the man who didn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a dtearr a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach dtearr a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son didn't do the work.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jul 2013 11:03 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
In Donegal Irish it is (several versions exist within Donegal btw):

Present Tense

1. a ghníos = who makes / does

2. nach ndéanann = who doesn't make / do

3. a ndéanann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. nach ndéanann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a ghníos an obair. = I met the man who does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach ndéanann an obair. = I met the man who doesn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son doesn't do the work.

Past Tense

1. a rinn = who made / did

2. nach dtearr = who didn't make / do

3. a dtearr a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nach dtearr a mhac = whose son didn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a rinn an obair. = I met the man who did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach dtearr an obair. = I met the man who didn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear a dtearr a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an fhear nach dtearr a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son didn't do the work.


A Lughaidh:

What would be the correct pronunciation of "a ghníos", and is there any other form of that verb stem used in other tenses, participles, etc? I am not familiar with it? Also, is it something heard throughout Donegal or just in Gaoth Dobhair?

Féabar


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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jul 2013 1:30 am 
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Quote:
What would be the correct pronunciation of "a ghníos",


"nees" roughly.
Some write "níos" but historically there's a gh- there (the root gni- is very old in Irish, and it corresponds to Welsh gwn-, Breton g(w)r- etc which are the roots of the verb "to do/make" as well).

Quote:
and is there any other form of that verb stem used in other tenses, participles, etc?


the present tense (but not the dependent form, which is déan or déanann) uses that root:
ghním, ghníonn tú, ghníonn sé... (you can also say "ghní tú, ghní sé...")

Quote:
I am not familiar with it?


because unfortunately, nowadays too few people even in Ulster write in their dialect. And they aren't taught to write it either. But in the "old" Donegal literature (Ó Grianna etc) writers would use these forms all the time.

Quote:
Also, is it something heard throughout Donegal or just in Gaoth Dobhair?


Throughout Donegal, and also in whole Scotland and in the Isle of Man. And it's an old thing since it existed in Old Irish (do-gní = he does), but all other dialects have regularised it by using déan- or dein- in the present tense (for both independent and dependent form). As often, Donegal has kept the old verbal forms.

You might be interested by the book An Teanga Bheo, Gaeilge Uladh
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_i ... ts_id=1441

It's entirely in Irish but I think you can use it because it's easy to see where the conjugations are, where the prepositional pronouns are, the examples are easy to understand, even though you don't understand all the explanations that are given between two sets of forms.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Jul 2013 6:28 pm 
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And in Connemara:

asenion wrote:
1. a dhéananns = who makes / does

2. nach ndéanann = who doesn't make / do

3. a ndéanann a mhac = whose son makes / does

4. nach ndéanann a mhac = whose son doesn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a dhéananns an obair. = I met the man who does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann an obair. = I met the man who doesn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son does the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndéanann a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son doesn't do the work.

Past Tense

1. a rinne = who made / did

2. nach ndearna = who didn't make / do

3. a ndearna a mhac = whose son made / did

4. nach ndearna a mhac = whose son didn't make / do

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a rinne an obair. = I met the man who did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna an obair. = I met the man who didn't do the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear a ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son did the work.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear nach ndearna a mhac an obair. = I met the man whose son didn't do the work.


That is, just that an s is added to the -ann ending (in the noncombined (positive) form only).

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jul 2013 1:30 am 
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Deir sibh "nach ndearna" i gConamara? nach ndeir sibh "nár rinne" nó rud ineacht mar sin? :)

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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