It is currently Mon 17 Jun 2024 12:38 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Understanding "mh"
PostPosted: Sat 25 May 2024 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 07 May 2024 3:50 pm
Posts: 57
I have in my notes that mh makes the \v\ sound, and usually this seems to be the case.

Yet there are cases, such as, romham \r-oh-m\ where the mh seems to either dissappear altogether or perhaps serve as some sort of indicator. Is there a general rule I should be aware of? Or is the general rule that mh makes the \v\ sound except for particular special cases?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding "mh"
PostPosted: Sun 26 May 2024 2:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 09 Jan 2024 8:15 pm
Posts: 36
In Waterford Irish, at least, the usual rules (with exceptions) are as follows:

1. mh/bh at the start or end of a word = v.
2. mh/bh in the middle of the word immediately followed by a long vowel or a dipthong = v.
3. mh/bh in the middle of the word not immediately followed by a long vowel or a dipthong = silent.

Source: The Irish of Ring, County Waterford: A Phonetic Study by Risteard B. Breatnach §500-509.

Romham is one of the exceptions to the rule and is pronounced /ru:m/, in Waterford at least (§507).

I am only an early stage learner who just happened to have the book in front of me. Other people with far, far better Irish than me may be able to tell you which of these rules of thumb apply to other dialects and West Munster.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Understanding "mh"
PostPosted: Mon 27 May 2024 12:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat 31 Jul 2021 8:03 pm
Posts: 135
iambullivant wrote:
In Waterford Irish, at least, the usual rules (with exceptions) are as follows:

1. mh/bh at the start or end of a word = v.
2. mh/bh in the middle of the word immediately followed by a long vowel or a dipthong = v.
3. mh/bh in the middle of the word not immediately followed by a long vowel or a dipthong = silent.

Source: The Irish of Ring, County Waterford: A Phonetic Study by Risteard B. Breatnach §500-509.

Romham is one of the exceptions to the rule and is pronounced /ru:m/, in Waterford at least (§507).

I am only an early stage learner who just happened to have the book in front of me. Other people with far, far better Irish than me may be able to tell you which of these rules of thumb apply to other dialects and West Munster.


In school in Kerry we were taught to pronounce romham as /ro:m/ and romhat as /ro:t/, which I suspect is the more mainstream pronunciation.

Micheál Ó Siadhail in his book 'Modern Irish - Grammatical Structure and Dialectical Variation' gives the following default pronunciation for 'romhat': /rõ:t/, although he also has the letters 'Er' after the transcription, indicating Erris, Co. Mayo.

He goes on to say: "In Connemara, Tourmakeady, Ring and in Dunquin, the nasal causes the previous vowel to be raised e.g.romhat /ro:t/ -> /ru:t/"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 148 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group