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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar 2023 1:28 pm 
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Hi, these may be difficult queries on Pádraig Ó Buachalla's Eachtra Phinocchio..

tufanta - d'fhiafraigh sé dhe go tufanta athúltha cad 'na thaobh do 'bheith ag tabhairt asachán do. This word is not attested anywhere else as far as I can tell. Does anyone know the meaning of tufanta?

tuircfheólach - do bhuail sé Geppetto bocht le fuinneamh ins na luirgne tuircfheólacha. I think this means "fleshy shins"?

ceabhramán - Sea, do cheabhramán mar thusa! I think this is a variant of cearnamhán, with someone insultingly being called a "beetle". ceanramán in FGB links to cearnamhán.

buile bhalc - Tháinig buile bhalc air. Balc should mean something firm. Some kind of "stiff anger"?


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar 2023 7:48 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Hi, these may be difficult queries on Pádraig Ó Buachalla's Eachtra Phinocchio..

tufanta - d'fhiafraigh sé dhe go tufanta athúltha cad 'na thaobh do 'bheith ag tabhairt asachán do. This word is not attested anywhere else as far as I can tell. Does anyone know the meaning of tufanta?


Let’s compare the Italian original:
A sentirsi chiamar Polendina, compar Geppetto diventò rosso come un peperone dalla bizza, e voltandosi verso il falegname, gli disse imbestialito:
– Perché mi offendete?


English:
Hearing himself called Pudding, Geppetto became as red as a
turkey–cock from rage and, turning to the carpenter, he said in a fury:
"Why do you insult me?"


Irish:
Nuair a airigh Geppetto Leite Bhuí á ghlaoch air, do las sé le feirg agus le fíoch, go raibh sé chomh dearg le cocán róis . D'iompaigh sé ar an saor adhmaid go míchéatach, is d'fhiafraigh sé dhe go tufanta athúltha cad 'na thaobh do ' bheith ag tabhairt asachán do.


German:
Als Gevatter Geppetto sich Polendina nennen hörte, wurde er rot wie eine reife Tomate; heftig fuhr er herum und schrie den Schreiner wütend an:
»Warum beleidigen Sie mich?«



:??:
It is probably a version of go tobann:
go tobann athúlta = go tufanta athúltha


Last edited by Labhrás on Thu 16 Mar 2023 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar 2023 8:17 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
tuircfheólach - do bhuail sé Geppetto bocht le fuinneamh ins na luirgne tuircfheólacha. I think this means "fleshy shins"?


Italian:
Mastr’Antonio, tutto contento, andò subito a prendere sul banco quel pezzo di legno che era stato cagione a lui di tante paure. Ma quando fu lì per consegnarlo all’amico, il pezzo di legno dette uno scossone e sgusciandogli violentemente dalle mani, ando a battere con forza negli stinchi impresciuttiti del povero Geppetto.

English:
Master Antonio was delighted, and he immediately went to the
bench and fetched the piece of wood that had caused him so much
fear. But just as he was going to give it to his friend the piece of wood
gave a shake and, wriggling violently out of his hands, struck with all
of its force against the dried–up shins of poor Geppetto


So:
tuircfheolach -> tuircfheoil = tairt(fh)eoil = dried-up flesh, "imprescuttito"


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar 2023 9:06 pm 
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The trouble is that Muskerry translators freely changed the wording of original texts to translate into something more likely to be said in Irish. The text here isn't tarteoil. Torc means "portly, corpulent" according to Ó Dónall. Maybe Ó Buachalla thought that meaning more comprehensible than "dried up"? The wording of the Italian isn't always a clue as the meaning of the Irish....


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar 2023 9:24 pm 
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tufanta is awkward. The Muskerry for "sudden" is obann, not tobann. There is a word tufar, "smelly", but it doesn't fit the sense here. tumhas in Dinneen's dictionary means "punch, blow". It must mean "aggressive" somehow, but it's odd that the word is completely unattested.


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2023 7:52 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
tufanta is awkward. The Muskerry for "sudden" is obann, not tobann. There is a word tufar, "smelly", but it doesn't fit the sense here. tumhas in Dinneen's dictionary means "punch, blow". It must mean "aggressive" somehow, but it's odd that the word is completely unattested.


How about “tumanta” < tiomanta?

Seems like a leap but the “ruilleogach” in “An Poc ar Buile” is “rideogach” elsewhere. Another example of local usage being spelled as it sounds.

go tufanta athúltha > go tiomanta athúltha?


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2023 10:57 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
The trouble is that Muskerry translators freely changed the wording of original texts to translate into something more likely to be said in Irish. The text here isn't tarteoil. Torc means "portly, corpulent" according to Ó Dónall. Maybe Ó Buachalla thought that meaning more comprehensible than "dried up"? The wording of the Italian isn't always a clue as the meaning of the Irish....


Hmm,
The change slender //<->// occurs sometimes in Irish, because they are neighboured consonants, so tairt<->tairc<->tuirc is similar enough.
The person of Gepetto is the same. He is a poor old woodcarver. He probably hasn't fleshy or corpulent legs.


The wording is quite different regarding "ceabhramán".
There are repeated one-word insults in the Italian orginal, in English as well, while there are full sentences (though still insulting) in Irish.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Mar 2023 11:17 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
tufanta is awkward. The Muskerry for "sudden" is obann, not tobann. There is a word tufar, "smelly", but it doesn't fit the sense here. tumhas in Dinneen's dictionary means "punch, blow". It must mean "aggressive" somehow, but it's odd that the word is completely unattested.


Another idea: I wonder if it could be Béarlachas from "tough"?


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Mar 2023 12:13 pm 
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I'll find out and post back here with the answers. Eachtra Phinocchio is not immediately comprehensible. I don't believe in publishing books without a glossary.


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Mar 2023 12:25 pm 
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another idea for "tufanta":

tafannta (verbal adjective of tafnaím, verbal noun tafann).


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