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PostPosted: Sat 13 Nov 2021 8:04 pm 
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Hi! I’m a bit confused about some pronunciation here.

According to a couple of old Daltaí posts and a few other online resources, the future tense suffix -óidh is pronounced “ahee” in Ulster (originally spelled “óchaidh”.) And the conditional tense suffix “-ódh” is pronounced “ahoo” in Ulster (originally spelled “óchadh”)…

So… then “ceannóidh” should be pronounced “KYAN•uh•hee”. And “cheannódh” should be pronounced “HYAN•uh•hoo”…

But the Ulster speaking voice on http://www.fuaimeanna.ie/ga/Recordings.aspx?Ortho=chean pronounces them “KYAN•uh•hai” and “HYAN•uh•hau,” respectively.

So now I’m really confused. Can anyone help? Thank you! :wave:


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov 2021 3:21 am 
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Hi Rosie,
I don't know Ulster Irish at all so I can't help you except to say there are variations in pronunciation even within dialects. There may be little difference between "-hoo" and "hau", and "hee" and "hai", respectively. Personally, I would follow or imitate the recorded one and then correct yourself as you find something different, or at least adjust according to the people you are around. I think there may be some other people here that know more and may be able to direct you to a good site for pronunciation. Good luck.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov 2021 5:13 pm 
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That’s a very good point. Thanks, Tim! :D

And I hope so too! Till then, I’ll keep researching! :computer:


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PostPosted: Fri 26 Nov 2021 9:28 am 
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All these pronunciations exist in Donegal, but I think the -ahee and the -ahoo ones are more common.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Dec 2021 2:18 pm 
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Go raibh MÍLE maith agat, a Lughaidh!

I’m so happy to finally know the answer to that! :clap:

I have a follow-up question, if you don’t mind:

If someone from Ulster were to say “ceannóidh,” for example, but say it like the Standard spelling…

Would it be cann•YOH•ee, as I heard one person say

Or more like CANN•yoi, which seems more natural to me and puts the emphasis on the first syllable, which seems to be the norm in Ulster.

And I’m assuming “cheannódh” would just be “HYANN•oh” ?

Thank you so much again for your help! :D


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Dec 2021 3:31 pm 
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Rose, it would be inauthentic to try to pronounce "ceannóidh" supposedly with an Ulster accent. “KYAN•uh•hee" is the way this word is pronounced in Ulster Irish. This is because ceannóidh is just a simplified spelling of the original ceannóchaidh, as it was written all over Ireland before the spelling change of the 1950s. if you eliminate the medial h from this word, then you no longer have Ulster Irish.

You can hear the word choinneóchadh in this story: https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/sf/sceal07.htm The audio file there seems to have the KHIN-yuh-au pronunciation of that. If you say "choinneódh", then you are mixing Munster Irish into Ulster Irish in an inauthentic way.

I think studying every chapter of Sgéilíní na Finne and listening to the audio files there would be your first port of call when studying Ulster Irish.

You can search Sgéilíní na Finne by entering this into the Google search box:
site: https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/sf/ choinneóchadh

That finds "choinneóchadh" on that site.


Last edited by djwebb2021 on Thu 02 Dec 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 02 Dec 2021 4:10 pm 
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Quote:
If someone from Ulster were to say “ceannóidh,” for example, but say it like the Standard spelling…


Why would you need to pronounce a non-Ulster form with an Ulster pronunciation?
Usually, in Ulster, people are being taught to write the standard form "ceannóidh" in schools because only standard spelling is accepted in exams etc. But they pronounce it as if it were spelt "ceannóchaidh". They write "ceannóidh" but read "ceannóchaidh" (kyah-na-hee). That's what I was taught in the University of Ulster too.

Now I write "ceannóchaidh" all the time because I don't have exams anymore :LOL: Looks like everybody understands my written Donegal Irish :)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Thu 02 Dec 2021 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri 22 Jan 2021 4:24 pm
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Ah! Thank you, Lughaidh and DJWebb2021! :) That audio file was very helpful, by the way. And you both made the same great point… :clap: It definitely would be inauthentic and kinda silly to pronounce it Standard… It would be sorta like someone who talks in a southern American accent randomly always saying only future tense verbs like a New Yorker. ;)

This has been a great help to me…I’ve been doing a deep-dive study into verbs the last few weeks, and I’m so excited to be learning all the rules and stuff!

Míle buíochas arís, a Chairde! :wave:


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