tiomluasocein wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Ó Catháin derives from a name beginning in cath- (katu-, often kattu-) and a unknown second part, shortened as a nickname with the diminutive ending -án (-agnos): Katuagnos (or Kattuagnos, prob. Kat(t)agnos), genitive Katuagni.
So, I'd think it could be AVIOS KATUAGNI (though perhaps rather the unknown full two-part katu-name instead of the pet name would have been used: Katugusti, Katuviri, Katurigi, etc.)
Ó Céin, Cian = Kēnos, so: AVIOS KENI
AVI, AVVI in ogham is genitive case. In all ogham inscriptions this genitive is used (because most names are in genitive case), but the nominative would had been AVIOS (or later perhaps avias, aviah -> aue -> úa -> ó).
Thank you so much for this. So an inscription with AVVI KAT(T)UAGNI or KENI (depending on which I choose) wouldn't be far off the mark?
No, they probably would not.
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Are Ogham inscriptions in the genitive because the inscriber wants to say the stone belongs to that person? For example, "son of Cathán's". Also, it's interesting to imagine that the AGNI could have become "AIN". In other words, the "n" became palatalised or "slender". What are your thoughts on this?
Yes, most of them are gravestones.
Of course, -n- in -agni became (or was already) slender. The genitive suffix -i was the main reason for slenderizing in Modern Irish declensions (fear - fir (< wiri), mac - mic (< maqqi),
Cathán -
Catháin).
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And where do you get your information for this? I can't find anything online at all and the books I have for "Old Irish" of course, don't have anything. By the way, I may be getting rid of some of my books on the language if you are interested. Send me a pm and I can give you a list.
There’s Sabine Ziegler’s "Die Sprache der altirischen Ogam-Inschriften"
https://digi20.digitale-sammlungen.de/d ... 00140.htmlJ.Vendryes’ "Lexique étymologique de l'Irlandais Ancien."
A. Holder’s "Alt-celtischer Sprachschatz"
https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/de/v ... ge=162,163 (page for "avios")
A. Ward’s "A Checklist of Proto-Celtic Lexical Items"
etc.