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PostPosted: Tue 03 Jan 2012 1:05 am 
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Ah, yes, thanks for the clarification, kk. I meant to say "as a way of being polite" myself.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan 2012 3:44 pm 
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Not to beat this to death, but I just want to make sure I'm getting this. If someone asks you something in the conditional, to be polite, you remove the conditional.

Would you like a drink?
I will.


You're taking the person up on their offer. You're committed.

But if manners aren't necessary, you keep the conditional.

Would you jump off that bridge?
I would.


And in koko's example, what if you were answering the question ("Would you give her the money if she asked you for it?") in the affirmative? Would you say

I would give her the money. ??

But even then there's still some question, right? So if you were 100% sure you'd give the money and had it in your hand to give her, would you then say,

I will give her the money. ??


And thanks to everyone--I'm now good on which verb to answer. And thanks to Saoirse for the example. I imagine multiple choice would always have to be the way to go versus a column of questions and then one column for Yes and one for No where the person would check either the yes or no column.

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan 2012 10:01 pm 
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Quote:
Would you like a drink?
I will.


i nGaeilg:
Ar mhaith leat deoch?
- Ba mhaith. (conditional)


Quote:
And in koko's example, what if you were answering the question ("Would you give her the money if she asked you for it?") in the affirmative? Would you say

I would give her the money. ??


An dtabharfá an t-airgead daoithe dá n-iarrfadh sí ort é?
Bhéarfainn. (standard: Thabharfainn).

Quote:
But even then there's still some question, right? So if you were 100% sure you'd give the money and had it in your hand to give her, would you then say,

I will give her the money. ??


then I guess you'd say "Bhéarfaidh" (standard: Tabharfaidh)

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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan 2012 12:03 am 
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mimerim wrote:
Not to beat this to death, but I just want to make sure I'm getting this. If someone asks you something in the conditional, to be polite, you remove the conditional.

But if manners aren't necessary, you keep the conditional.

And in koko's example, what if you were answering the question ("Would you give her the money if she asked you for it?") in the affirmative? Would you say

I would give her the money. ??

But even then there's still some question, right? So if you were 100% sure you'd give the money and had it in your hand to give her, would you then say,

I will give her the money. ??

I think you’ve misunderstood a bit.

In Irish (as in English), the conditional is often used to be polite. So instead of asking “Can you close the door?” (which is straightforward and to the point, but comes off as being rash), you use the conditional to take the edge of: “Could you close the door?”.

That’s one use of the conditional. There isn’t really any condition there at all, it just marks that you’re being polite and not wishing to sound rough.


A completely separate use of the conditional is as an actual conditional, where it marks that an action would take place if the condition were met—but not if the condition weren’t met. Compare the difference between these two phrases:

(A) “Would give me the money, please?”
(B) “Would you give me the money if I were ill and needed it for surgery?”

In the former type (A), you’re not asking whether the person would, hypothetically, if something else were to happen, give you the money—you’re just asking for the money in a polite way. Not so in the latter (B), where you’re talking about a hypothetical situation that depends on a condition.


Now, in Irish, when you reply to a question of the former type (A), you reply in the future, rather than the conditional. You have no reason to be polite when you’re just stating what you will or will not do. Similarly, if you repeat the verb in English, you’ll use the present tense (working as a future tense here, since English doesn’t have a real, grammatical future tense).

But in type (B), you can’t just get rid of the conditional, because it’s actually conditional in meaning. If someone asks you whether, in a certain situation, you would do something or not, you can’t just reply with a statement of what you will (in the future) do. That doesn’t make sense. Compare:

(A)
— “Would you give me the money, please?” (polite conditional)
— “I certainly will not, you eejit!” (present)

(B)
— “Would you give me the money if I were ill and needed it for surgery?” (real conditional)
— “I certainly would not, you eejit!” (real conditional)



It’s exactly the same in Irish:

(A)
— “An dtabharfá an t-airgead dom, le do thoil?” (polite conditional)
— “Ní thabharfaidh ar chor ar bith, a amadáin! (future)

(B)
— “An dtabharfá an t-airgead dom dá mbeinn tinn agus é de dhíth orm fá choinne obráide?” (real conditional)
— “Ní thabharfainn ar chor ar bith, a amadáin! (real conditional)

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jan 2012 12:41 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
C.1. An maith leat tae?
Is maith liom / ní maith liom

Q.1. Do you like tea?
I do like / I don't like (yes / no)


Actually, in Irish, if someone asks "An maith leat tae?" the possible answers are either "Is maith" or "ní maith", but you don't say "liom".


Depending on the humour, the number of pints consumed, the welcome, and the greatness of my need for tae, I might be tempted to reply: Is maith liom tae! or on the contrary Ní maith liom tae! I'm more of a coffee drinker myself :)

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Jan 2012 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 943
Braoin wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
C.1. An maith leat tae?
Is maith liom / ní maith liom

Q.1. Do you like tea?
I do like / I don't like (yes / no)


Actually, in Irish, if someone asks "An maith leat tae?" the possible answers are either "Is maith" or "ní maith", but you don't say "liom".


Depending on the humour, the number of pints consumed, the welcome, and the greatness of my need for tae, I might be tempted to reply: Is maith liom tae! or on the contrary Ní maith liom tae! I'm more of a coffee drinker myself :)

:darklaugh: :yes:


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