/n/ is realized as [r] (or is replaced by /r/) after consonants other than [s]. This happens in Ulster as well.

In Munster ( to my surprise) they sometimes pronounce the ''cn'' as ''cl'' or ''cr'' and in addition in the case of ''cnámhseáil'' they pronounce the final ''l'' as a ''n''
My question has to do with the reliability of the pronunciations at Teanglann and whether they can be trusted and if not is there a reliable source regarding the pronunciation the initial ''cn'' in the different dialects ?
Séamus

My question has to do with the reliability of the pronunciations at Teanglann

In Munster, initial cn is nearly always pronounced as cn, I can't think of an example where it isn't. Though, I can think of a good few examples where Connacht and Ulster have cr instead, i.e. cnoc for example is cnoc in Munster and can be croc in the other dialects. This is a fairly old development as it can be found in placenames- Limerick for example, can be Luimneach or Luimreach.

Mná is the classic example, its mná in Munster and mrá in Connacht.

Regarding cláimhseáil, in Munster Irish, where the termination is -(e)áil, you usually get -(a)int instead, the intrusive "t" in -aint is a later development. The -aint is just a dialect variation used for creating a verbal noun.

The classic examples are féachaint for féacháil and feiscint for feiceáil.



Teanglann is a reliable source, no doubt. But it does have a weakness, the severity of such depends on what you're using the resource for. If you are using it because you just want to check the pronunciation of a word, than there's not really an issue. But, if you are using it to compare how a word is pronounced in the dialects there is a major drawback.

The weakness is this, if you look up a word like cnámhseáil, similarly to what you have done, you will find the Munster speaker saying cnámhseán, you're immediately left with the impression that the Munster speaker pronounces cnámhseáil as cnamhseán and you may also think that -eáil to -án is a phonetic development. But of course he doesn't and its not, cnámhseáil doesn't exist in Munster Irish, its cnámhseán; and if you look up cnámhseáil in the dictionary side of the site you will find cnámhseán as a variant:

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/cn%C3%A1imhse%C3%A1il

Similarly, if you search teanglann to pronounce feiceáil, you will hear the Munster speaker say feiscint and everyone else say feiceáil- again feiceáil doesn't exist in Munster Irish, so it can be a bit misleading.

Similarly, look up Gaeilge, Irish is only called called Gaeilge in Connacht.

Some other people have an issue with the site having dialectal pronunciations of word variants that are not pan-dialectal. The different ways of saying also or as well is a good example. Munster: leis, chomh maith; Connacht: freisin; Ulster: fosta.

In the case of a Munster Irish speaker, you will very, very unlikely hear him/ her say freisin or fosta. But if you look up the pronunciation of fosta or freisin you will hear him pronounce it, instead of leis or chomh maith. Some people have an issue with this as it gives the false impression that some variations are used in all the dialects. I don't have a problem with this however, usually people who are concerned over a minute detail like this usual have a fair idea of the dialectal differences anyway. However, it would be nice if focloir.ie would say which feature exists where, I know it lists cnámhseán and féachint as variants, but it would be nice if they explicitly said where those variants exist. Also, when you search for a word to be pronounced, there should be a list of the synonyms for that word and where the variations exists with a link back to the dictionary.

Cian

Go raibh maith agaibh go léir:
The folks at Teanglann have done and are doing a tremendous job and we are light-years ahead of what was available to the learner a few short years ago. I think most people use the pronunciation section of the site to determine how a word is pronounced in one or all of the dialects, so I think Cian's suggestion that a list of synonyms for a word,how they are pronounced and where they exist is desireable.
In the case of the word ''cnapán'' they show it as being pronounced ''klep-awn'' in Munster. If this is the case then it must be in some region of Munster ! As I have indicated, Teanglann is a wonderful tool but the pronunciation section could be improved to increase awareness and cognizance of the dialectical differences that exist in the various regions and sub-regions of the Gaeltacht areas.

Séamus





Crossed with Jay Bee

In the case of the word ''cnapán'' they show it as being pronounced ''klep-awn'' in Munster. If this is the case then it must be in some region of Munster!
Séamus

I hear "knep-awn", I don't hear any "l" sound.

here's the link: http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/cnap%C3%A1n

I've played it over a few times and I still hear the ''l'' sound as opposed to ''cnap'' and ''cnead'' where I do hear the '' kn'' sound. Could be my hearing

You can have a look at the Linguistic Atlas and Survey of the Irish dialects, page 245, 132, 210.
To make it simple, cn is pronounced:
- cr in Ulster and Connachta
- cn in Munster.

There can be one or 2 exceptions in a few places in Connachta where cn is cn (btw I don't know if Irish is still spoken in these places - the surveys were done in the 1950s).

I can scan those maps for you if you like.