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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 8:12 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
"Fágfaidh mo thraein ag trí nóiméad is fiche chun a naoi r.n."

you wouldn't use "fág" if you don't say what you leave. "To leave", when it means "to go away", is "imigh".
Imeoidh mo thraein...

Acc. to http://www.focloir.ie/ga/dictionary/ei/leave fág is ok.
Quote:
INTRANSITIVE
imigh verb
fág verb
bailigh leat PhrV
the train left on time d'fhág an traein in am, d'imigh an traein in am


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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 10:17 pm 
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I can't find any example of "fág" used without an object in Ó Dónaill nor in de Bhaldraithe. Maybe they've accepted that wrong new use of "fág" in the new dictionary, because so many non-native speakers say it because they don't master the difference between imigh and fág, since English only has "leave" for both. But accepting learners' mistakes in a dictionary is not a good thing, in my opinion. Imagine if they accepted French people's mistakes in the English dictionaries. It would be ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 10:57 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I can't find any example of "fág" used without an object in Ó Dónaill nor in de Bhaldraithe. Maybe they've accepted that wrong new use of "fág" in the new dictionary, because so many non-native speakers say it because they don't master the difference between imigh and fág, since English only has "leave" for both. But accepting learners' mistakes in a dictionary is not a good thing, in my opinion. Imagine if they accepted French people's mistakes in the English dictionaries. It would be ridiculous.


Alas, it seems to be very common in Irish. Something to do with keeping it 'modern' for the learner...


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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 11:10 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I can't find any example of "fág" used without an object in Ó Dónaill nor in de Bhaldraithe. Maybe they've accepted that wrong new use of "fág" in the new dictionary, because so many non-native speakers say it because they don't master the difference between imigh and fág, since English only has "leave" for both. But accepting learners' mistakes in a dictionary is not a good thing, in my opinion. Imagine if they accepted French people's mistakes in the English dictionaries. It would be ridiculous.

From my "semi" native experience, fág without an object sounds very alien to me. I've never used it in speech, nor have I ever seen it in writing. FWIW anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar 2015 10:39 am 
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In English, there's a difference between "leave behind" and "go away." Would it be fair to say that that's the same as the distinction between "fág" and "imigh"?

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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar 2015 6:20 pm 
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Quote:
Would it be fair to say that that's the same as the distinction between "fág" and "imigh"?


yes!

Quote:
Alas, it seems to be very common in Irish. Something to do with keeping it 'modern' for the learner...


ie. To Anglicize Irish so that it's easier to learn for native English speakers. :darklaugh:

As John Ghráinne used to say, "Sílim go mairfidh an Ghaeilg ach ní thuigfidh mé níos mó í." (or something like that).

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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 10:05 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I can't find any example of "fág" used without an object in Ó Dónaill nor in de Bhaldraithe.


There is this example in Ó Dónaill:
http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/f%C3%A1g
Quote:
fág2, v.t. & i. [...] 4. Go away from, quit, forsake. [...]D'fhág sé go luath, he left early.

Agus Foclóir Phádraig Uí Dhuinnín:

Quote:
Fágaim [...] tr. and intr.


Last edited by Labhrás on Fri 27 Mar 2015 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 11:42 am 
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Chan fhacaidh mé 'n cionn sin.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr 2015 2:03 pm 
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Idiomatic structure can arise from ellipsis.

Think of English He is [in a state of being] good or I'm here for [to get] a piece of cake

Also:
for [to help] him
for [the benefit of] the team
for [the duration of] a week
for [reasons of] honour
for [the amount of] a pound
good for [the body of] you [?]
for [the time of] Winter, it's lovely!

See in Irish:
chuaigh sí fá choinne bainne a fháil clipped to chuaigh sí fá choinne bainne

There is also metaphoric usage Cheannaigh mé ar phunt amháin é (and i don't know if 'ceannaigh' is related to head either (to think before acting?)

Since 'ann' is used for state, then one can say you are in a state of being able to speak Irish if you are in ann Gaeilg a rá

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 Post subject: Re: Two Easy Questions
PostPosted: Mon 20 Apr 2015 5:31 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Imagine if they accepted French people's mistakes in the English dictionaries. It would be ridiculous.

:prof: Actually, we've been living with French people's mistakes since 1066. :bolt:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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