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 Post subject: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2013 2:40 pm 
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I have recently picked up a copy of the Tiomna Nua (1970) translated by O Cuinn. I dont really know much about this translation/version or any Irish translation. I haven't had much of a chance to compare it with An Biobla Naofa. Does anyone know if there are any major differences between the two. I know that O Cuinn has passed away but is there any plans to have the Old Testament translated as well? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2013 6:19 am 
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JeremyS wrote:
I have recently picked up a copy of the Tiomna Nua (1970) translated by O Cuinn. I dont really know much about this translation/version or any Irish translation. I haven't had much of a chance to compare it with An Biobla Naofa. Does anyone know if there are any major differences between the two. I know that O Cuinn has passed away but is there any plans to have the Old Testament translated as well? Thanks.


The 1970 O Cuinn Tiomna Nua was a Protestant translation of just the New Testament made under the auspices of the Hibernian Bible Society. An Bíobla Naofa is a more recent (2000) Roman Catholic translation of the whole (Catholic) Bible. I have both of them myself, as well.

As you may know, there are various versions of the Bible (not just different books, but also different verse arrangements and extra text stuck in in some places), but the major differences between/among Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Bibles occur in the Old Testament (Coptic and other eastern Bibles do have extra books in the New Testament, though), so the main differences in this case would be wording choices made in the translation.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar 2015 8:35 pm 
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In fact, the Tiomna Nua is a beautifully written, very fluent translation. Between the two, I much prefer O Cuinn's translation. An Biobla Naofa is very precise and obviously well-researched, but O Cuinn is alive. Hope that helps!

For example, here is The Lord's Prayer for ABN:

7“Agus sa ghuí daoibh, ná déanaigí deilín de mar a dhéanann na págánaigh;
samhlaíonn siad seo, dá mhéad a gcaint, gurb ea is dóichí go n-éistfear leo. 8Ná déanaigí
aithris orthu; mar is eol do bhur nAthair na nithe a theastaíonn uaibh sula n-iarrann sibh
air iad. 9Seo mar a dhéanfaidh sibhse guí:
Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh,
go naofar d’ainm;
10 go dtaga do ríocht;
go ndéantar do thoil ar an talamh mar a dhéantar ar neamh.
11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
12 agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha, mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin;
13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
ach saor sinn ó olc.

Compare that with O Cuinn's:

7 “Agus ag guí daoibh, ná déanaigí deilín mór fada di ar nós
na nGintlithe; a shíleas go bhfaighidh siad éisteacht as méid a
mbriathar. 8 Ná déanaigí aithris orthu siúd, mar tá a fhios ag
bhur nAthair cad é atá uaibh sula mbíonn sibh á iarraidh. 9 Dá
bhrí sin de, bígí ag guí mar seo:
Ár nAthair atá ar neamh,
bíodh d’ainm á naomhú,
10 bíodh do ríocht ag teacht,
bíodh do thoil á déanamh
ar an talamh mar atá ar neamh.
11 Tabhair dúinn inniu ár n‑arán laethúil;
12 Agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha,
mar atá maite againn dár bhféichiúnaithe;
13 Agus ná lig sinn i gcathú
Ach saor sinn ó olc.

One thing I noticed right off is that O Cuinn is much more likely to use conditional verbs, and to rely on the native Gaeilge tendency towards prepositions. If I may sound trite, it just sounds more "Irish". Either way, you are helping to sustain one of Europe's most ancient languages, so "maith thu"!


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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar 2015 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
Either way, you are helping to sustain one of Europe's most ancient languages, so "maith thu"!


there's no "Europe's most ancient language", since languages have no age, apart from Creoles and conlangs.

Btw, somewhere on the web there's a 17th century Irish version of the whole Bible, and it's quite funny.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar 2015 3:11 am 
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oirfideach wrote:
Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh,
go naofar d’ainm;
10 go dtaga do ríocht;
go ndéantar do thoil ar an talamh mar a dhéantar ar neamh.
11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
12 agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha, mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin;
13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
ach saor sinn ó olc.


I don't know how far back this translation goes. But I was saying it this way before the 1970 book was published.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar 2015 3:22 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Bríd Mhór wrote:
oirfideach wrote:
Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh,
go naofar d’ainm;
10 go dtaga do ríocht;
go ndéantar do thoil ar an talamh mar a dhéantar ar neamh.
11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
12 agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha, mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin;
13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
ach saor sinn ó olc.


I don't know how far back this translation goes. But I was saying it this way before the 1970 book was published.


This is the version used in the Ó Riada mass as well. I don't see how the other version is any better. In fact, this version, with its use of the subjunctive rather than the imperative, seems much more natural to me.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2015 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 126
    Redwolf wrote:
    Bríd Mhór wrote:
    oirfideach wrote:
    Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh,
    go naofar d’ainm;
    10 go dtaga do ríocht;
    go ndéantar do thoil ar an talamh mar a dhéantar ar neamh.
    11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
    12 agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha, mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin;
    13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
    ach saor sinn ó olc.


    I don't know how far back this translation goes. But I was saying it this way before the 1970 book was published.


    This is the version used in the Ó Riada mass as well. I don't see how the other version is any better. In fact, this version, with its use of the subjunctive rather than the imperative, seems much more natural to me.



    Redwolf


    Has anybody seen or use a version which I was taught some eighty years ago !
    11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
    12 agus maith dhúinn ár gcionta, mar a mhaithimid do chách a chionntíos in ár n-agaidh
    13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
    14 ach saor sinn ó holc.
    Amen


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     Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
    PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2015 2:54 pm 
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    Séamus wrote:
      Redwolf wrote:
      Bríd Mhór wrote:
      oirfideach wrote:
      Ár nAthair, atá ar neamh,
      go naofar d’ainm;
      10 go dtaga do ríocht;
      go ndéantar do thoil ar an talamh mar a dhéantar ar neamh.
      11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
      12 agus maith dúinn ár bhfiacha, mar a mhaithimidne dár bhféichiúna féin;
      13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
      ach saor sinn ó olc.


      I don't know how far back this translation goes. But I was saying it this way before the 1970 book was published.


      This is the version used in the Ó Riada mass as well. I don't see how the other version is any better. In fact, this version, with its use of the subjunctive rather than the imperative, seems much more natural to me.



      Redwolf


      Has anybody seen or use a version which I was taught some eighty years ago !
      11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
      12 agus maith dhúinn ár gcionta, mar a mhaithimid do chách a chionntíos in ár n-agaidh
      13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
      14 ach saor sinn ó holc.
      Amen


      I haven't heard that. Could it be a Munster version?
      They probably say it slightly differently in Donegal too.


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       Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
      PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2015 3:20 pm 
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      Posts: 2436
      Quote:
      Has anybody seen or use a version which I was taught some eighty years ago !
      11 Ár n-arán laethúil tabhair dúinn inniu;
      12 agus maith dhúinn ár gcionta, mar a mhaithimid do chách a chionntíos in ár n-agaidh
      13 agus ná lig sinn i gcathú,
      14 ach saor sinn ó holc.


      there are a few spelling and grammar mistakes here: chionntíos (chinntíos? I don't know that verb but there's a "caol le caol" mistake)
      inár n-aghaidh
      ó olc

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      Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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       Post subject: Re: Tiomna Nua (1970)
      PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2015 3:47 pm 
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      Posts: 715
      Lughaidh wrote:
      ... chionntíos (chinntíos? I don't know that verb but there's a "caol le caol" mistake)



      FGB: ciontaigh 3. transgress, offend, - ciontú in aghaidh- to offend against


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