It is currently Tue 28 Apr 2026 11:09 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 12:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon 22 Sep 2014 1:45 pm
Posts: 12
Gaeilge briste (attempt - feel free to correct!) -- Bhí mé ag léamh trí dánta a foglaim mé nuair a bhí mé óg, agus chonaic mé an focail "scléip" and ní raibh mé ábalta é a rá...
I was reading through poems that I learned when I was young, and I saw this word "scléip" and I'm not able to say it...

Rather, I'm convinced my pronunciation is incorrect, my dialect is mixed, I learned through school in Ireland, but with a lot of Munster based teachers early on, so there's a bit of that in me, but a mix of teachers in secondary school leaving me... confused? ;)

It's not on forvo, but if anyone could give it a shot that would be great...
http://www.forvo.com/word/scl%C3%A9ip

Preference for Munster, but happy for any!

The context is here:

Beidh spórt agus scléip
Agam féin agus Seán
Ag súgradh inniu
Sa sneachta bog bán.


I know trying to type a pronunciation is also useless...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 12:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2436
Simply "shklayp" (without any "y" glide though, it's a long close eh-sound, if you like)
[ʃkʲlʲeːpʲ] if you can read IPA.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 1098
Lughaidh,
can I ask you, as a professional linguist, why you use the j postscript for sounds where there is no glide? It would seem to me that something like [ʃkʲl'eːp'] would be clearer (actually as I was writing I realized that the symbol I used used is used for ejectives...)

So what other symbol could be used for slender f, w/v, p, m, l and n when there is no glide after?

_________________
__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2014 10:03 pm
Posts: 522
Location: SAM
The j in that case just represents that it is a palatalized consonant.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 5:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 1098
Yeah, but there is no glide, so it's not palatized. The lips are only spread and if there is only light palitization, there is not much. It is not 'shkylyéip'.

You see a similar thing with the velarisation symbol on broad labials. Now, there may very well be velarisation going on, but it is secondary to the lip rounding and would only be incidental as a native speaking tongue (in an imaginary 'perfect' speaker) you would think would have there tongue back anyways just because that's how the tongue would be working as per the language, but it's no the most important thing for making any needed contrast

_________________
__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 6:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2014 10:03 pm
Posts: 522
Location: SAM
But palatilaztion has nothing to do with the glide. It has everything to do with tongue placement. It's a marker for the secondary articulation of the sound.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 6:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 488
Well, superscript-j is a standard marker for palatalisation, irrespective of glides. You can't really fault him on that.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 6:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 1098
I'm faulting anyone on anything, but since it was given in square brackets [] it looks like a narrow transcription and since you don't see anyone say that there are both glide and non-glide versions of slender labials and slender l and n, it's probably going to be assumed they are 'hard-baked' with a glide on them all the time, I would think, so following on from Lon Dubh's point about allophonic variation in the r-phonemes, I thought it worthy of mention

_________________
__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Oct 2014 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 1098
I mean, his observations suggest to me to point out variance in another area

_________________
__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 513 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group