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PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct 2014 10:45 pm 
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Rob,

I would recommend reading the Wikipedia pages on Irish phonology and orthography to get a sense of when to use broad and slender consonants, as well as the pages on velarization and palatalization to figure out how to make said consonants. Other than that, I suggest just listen to native speakers of the dialect of your choice and practice, practice, practice. Try as hard as you can to imitate their speech.

And, yes, Irish spelling is more regular than English in certain cases, but there have been things that have changed. It actually ends up being much better if things are spelled in dialect instead of using the Caighdeán.


Jay Bee wrote:
d) vowels can lengthen or diphthong before l, n, r, m (and maybe ng, I'm not sure), so 'timpiste' becomes 'tímpiste', 'poll' becomes 'paull' etc


In Munster Irish, dipthongization happens at least before <nn>, as can be evidenced with their pronunciation of<ann>


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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 12:38 am 
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As far as I know, Munster diphthongises a and o before ll, nn, m, and lengthens the other vowels (An Rinn also diphthongises i: rinn is /raiŋ'/, im is /aim'/ etc)

Connachta only lengthens vowels in these cases (no diphthongs)
Ulster doesn't change anything (as it was in Old Irish), these vowels remain short

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 9:02 am 
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That's what I meant, the fortis sounds like l, n, r and m.

There are examples of diphthongization from Conamara before the historical reflexes as well, tho I don't know if that is dialect specific, word specific or view loans. I saw a few in Caint Ros Muc 1, as I recall. Someone here with more dialect knowledge than myself might know a few examples

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 9:04 am 
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As for how to pronounce things, I've put up a few times here a guide as to how to make the sounds in a few simple steps, tho I suspect no-one has ever used it, lol

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 2:49 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
I would recommend reading the Wikipedia pages on Irish phonology and orthography to get a sense of when to use broad and slender consonants...


The problem I'm having with that page is the IPA symbols... wow, are those tough to get a grip on! And some things I am just not understanding very well. An example would be how "ceann" and "feanntach" seem to have a different sound on the "ea" portion. I can't seem to find a reason on the Wikipedia page for why the "c" or the "f" would change how the "ea" is pronounced.

Jay Bee wrote:
As for how to pronounce things, I've put up a few times here a guide as to how to make the sounds in a few simple steps, tho I suspect no-one has ever used it, lol


Link please!


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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 3:22 pm 
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The IPA isn't too hard to learn, especially if it's just for one language. As for the sound of 'ea', it's just a different vowel sound represented by the same combination. As I said, Irish orthography isn't 100% phonemic. It really does get better with practice, especially once you realizr some vowels are only there to mark broad/slender consonants and not for a sound. I say listen to samples and just practice practice practice.


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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 5:45 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
The IPA isn't too hard to learn, especially if it's just for one language. As for the sound of 'ea', it's just a different vowel sound represented by the same combination. As I said, Irish orthography isn't 100% phonemic. It really does get better with practice, especially once you realizr some vowels are only there to mark broad/slender consonants and not for a sound. I say listen to samples and just practice practice practice.


Right on. Then I suppose the last question I would have for this particular thread would be about sentence structure. I know that it is verb, subject, object... but does Duolingo itself expand on the concept any? I am only slightly past the first checkpoint, and the only sentences I can recognize and/or somewhat put together are super simplistic. "Ithim an oráiste," or if I feel froggy, "Ithim an oráiste agus úll," (<--- if that is even correct).


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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 5:53 pm 
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Irish is similar to English with respect to the progressive continuous sense here so you can't repeatedly eat the same apple and orange unless there is some qualification (such as the same fruit pair each time).

I'll try and find the link

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 5:59 pm 
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Duolingo has notes but they're not super in depth. They're a good start, however. Also, in regards to your sentence, Irish does have a different progressive form, which Duolingo deicdes not to teach until the last checkpoint, despite it's importance. I also have some other issues with Duolingo, and you can see it in the thread on these forums. An Lon Dubh also raises issues. /rant


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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct 2014 6:05 pm 
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Here if is. I'll make an audio guide; I think it might help

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3253&hilit=Coronal&start=10

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