Hello Again & Dia Duit!

Thanks again for all that you guys do.

I have below a few phrases and pronunciations, I need to ensure the structure is 100% correct of the following words and phrases. I've had an Irish speaker, where Irish was their 2nd language, look over them once already. Now I'm looking for consensus on grammar, structure, and conjugation.


Liturgical Objects
Well - Tobar (TUB-bur)
Fire - Tine (CHIN-ih, or, in Connacht, TSIN-ih)
Tree - Crann (CRAN, or in Munster, CROWN)
Sacred Well - Tobar naofa (TUB-bur KNEE-uh-fuh)
Sacred Fire - Tine naofa (CHIN-ih KNEE-uh-fuh)
Sacred Tree - Crann naofa (CRAN KNEE-uh-fuh)
This Cup – An cupán seo (un COOP-ahn shaw)

* indicates the dh type of the two throaty sounds, ch being the other

Liturgical Words & Phrases
Sacred - naofa
(KNEEuh-fuh)

Blessings – Beannachtaí ort/oraibh (though, when offering this as a blessing, this would usually be used in the form “go mbeannaí ____ duit/daoibh.” For example “go mbeannaí na déithe duit/daoibh”: May the gods bless you.
(BAN-ukh-tee ort/OR-iv or Guh MAN-ee ___ ditch/DEE-iv)

Flow within us! - sruthaigh istigh ionainn! (this assumes you’re addressing one person or entity. If you’re addressing multiples, it would be “sruthaigí”: SRUH-hih-gee (with a hard “g,” as in “gate.”
(SRUH-hee ISS-chee IN-un)

Be within us! - Bí istigh ionainn (again, this assumes one being addressed. It you intend to address multiples, it would be “Bígí” – BEE-gee)
(Bee ISS-chee IN-un)

Grow within us! - fás istigh ionainn! (plural form is “fásaigí”: FAWSS-ih-gee
(FAWS IS-chee IN-un)

Sacred Well, Flow within us! – A Thobar Naofa, sruthaigh istigh ionainn!
(Uh HUB-ur NEE-uh-fuh, SRUH-hee IS-chee IN-un)

Sacred Fire, Burn within us! – A Thine Naofa, dóigh istigh ionainn!
(Uh HIN-eh NEE-uh-fuh, DOH-ee IS-chee IN-un)

Sacred Tree, Grow within us! - A Chrann Naofa, fás istigh ionainn
(Uh KH*RAWN NEE-uh-fuh, fahss ISS-chee IN-un)

This is the guttural “ch” sound, as in “Bach”
[I’ve kept these in the imperative, but they may be more naturally said as “may you grow…” “may you be…” etc. I didn’t change them because I’m not sure if you’re after a different tone than I might find usual in a Christian liturgy.]

O Manannan, O lord of our gates, we walk on your path.*
A Mhanainn*, a thiarna ár ngeataí, siúlann muid ar do bhealach.
(uh WAH-nin, uh HEER-nuh awr NGAT-ee, SHOO-lun mwij air duh VA-luch)

* In Irish, this name is “Manann,” without the extra syllable

O Brighid, goddess of our gates, we walk on your path.
A Bhrighid, a bhandia ár ngeataí, siúlann muid ar do bhealach.
(uh vreej, ah WAN-jee-uh awr NGAT-ee, SHOO-lun mwij air duh VA-lukh)

[I changed this to the habitual, which sounds more natural to me here. “We do walk” as opposed to “we are walking.”]

Listen now, to this place of spirits.
Éistigí anois, leis an áit seo na spiorad
(AYSH-tih-gee uh-NISH, lesh un awtch shaw nuh SPIR-ud)

Listen now to this place of elders.
Éistigí anois, leis an áit seo na sinsear
(AYSH-tih-gee uh-NISH, leis un awtch shaw nuh SHIN-shur)

Listen now to this place of gods.
Éistigí anois, leis an áit seo na ndéithe
(AYSH-ti-gee uh-NISH, lesh un awtch shaw nuh NAY-heh)

Ancestors, accept our offering/sacrifice!
A Shinsir, glacaigí ár n-íobairt!
(uh HIN-shir, GLAC-uh-gee awr NEE-birtch)

Sidhe Folk, accept our sacrifice!
A Dhaoine Sí, glacaigí ár n-íobairt!
(uh GHIN-eh shee, GLAC-uh-gee awr NEE-birtch)

Gods, accept our sacrifice!
A dhéithe, glacaigí á n-íobairt!
(uh YAY-heh, GLAC-uh-gee awr NEE-birtch)

Welcome! Gods, Ancestors, Spirits!
Fáilte! A dhéithe, a shinsir, a spioraid
(FAWL-cheh! Uh YAY-heh, uh HIN-shir, uh SPIR-ij)

Tribe of the gods, accept our sacrifice!
A Thuaith na ndéithe, glacaigí ár n-íobairt!
(uh HOO-ee nuh NAY-heh, GLAC-uh-gee awr NEE-birtch

These are the waters of life!
Seo iad uiscí an beatha!
(SHAW EE-ud ISH-kee un BA-huh)

Thank you!
Go raibh maith agaibh!
(GUH roh my uh-IV)

Alexei

Behold the waters of life
Féic/Féicigí ar uiscí an beatha
(FAYK/FAYK-ih-gee air ISH-kee un BA-huh)

This Cup
(ar) an cupán seo
((Air) uh KOOP-ahn shaw)

This Well
(ar) an tobar seo
((Air) un TUB-ur shaw)

This Sacred Place / Nemeton
(ar) an neimheadh seo (I’m going to have to trust you on this one, as there is no word for “Nemeton” in any of my dictionaries. “Neimheadh” means “sanctuary” or “privilege”)
((Air) un NEV-oo shaw)

Call: Gods be with you
Response: And also with you
Call: Go raibh na déithe libh
Response: agus leat féin
(Guh roh nuh DAY-heh liv. AH-guss lat hayn)

Thank You!
Singular: Go raibh maith agat!
Plural: Go raibh maith agaibh!

So Be It
Go mbeidh sé amhlaidh
(guh MAY shay OW-lee)

Be it so
(Same as above. Irish makes no distinction between the two English orderings)

Let it be so (this would be the same as the others. Irish doesn’t use “let” in this sense)

"May the Gods and ancestors bless___"
Irish: Go raibh beannachtaí na ndéithe agus na sinsear ar___
(guh row BAN-ukh-tee nuh NAY-heh AW-guss nuh SHIN-shur air ___)


"Protection of the Gods upon ____"
Irish: Go raibh cosaint (or “scáth”) na ndéithe ar ___
(Guh raibh KUSS-intch (or “skaw”) nuh NAY-he air ____)

"Let the gates be opened" - "Let the gates be closed"
Irish: Go n-oscloidh na ngeataí – Go ndúnfaidh na ngeataí
(Guh NOSS-kloy nuh NGAT-ee – Guh NOON-hee nuh NGAT-ee)

"Behold the___" or "This is the___"
Irish: Feic/Feicigí ar or Seo é an ___
(Feck/FECK-ih-gee air or SHAW ay un ___)


"May the Gods be honored"
Irish: Go raibh onóir do na ndéithe
(Guh roh ON-oh-ir duh nuh NAY-heh)

"We are here to honor the Gods"
Irish: Támuid anseo onóir a thabhairt do na ndéithe
(TAH-mwij un-SHAW ON-oh-ir uh HORTCH duh nuh NAY-heh)

Terms to fill in the blanks:

(ar) signifies an optional meaning of on or upon applied to the the target. When talking directly to a person ar and tú combine and becomes ort when talking to one person which combines with sibh and becomes oraibh if talking directly to many people

"Pole" cuaille
"Tree" crann
"Stone" cloch, gallán (standing stone)
"Pit" poll, sloc
"This Tribe" (ar) an treibh seo
“This Grove” (ar) an Doire seo (ar an Dirr-uh SHUH)
“Hearthstone Grove” Doire leac an Teallaigh
"This man" (ar) an bhfear seo
"This woman" (ar) an mbean seo
"This child" (ar) an bpáiste seo
"This place" (mundane places) (ar) an áit seo
"This object" (ar) an rud seo
"This water (not whiskey)" (ar) an uisce seo
“This fire” (ar) an tine seo
"Sacred fire" tine naofa, tine choisricthe

I should add that I helped patchshorts a bit with this, but I'm insecure enough with my grammar that I'd really like some more learned eyes on it.

Patchshorts, I didn't ask before, but if you have a particular dialect in mind, you'll want to mention that.

Redwolf

I try to use Connemara.

Really good effort. There's a few little things.

First off, I find trying to represent Irish sounds using English fairly dodgy because you mightn't pronounce something the way I would and vice versa. For instance, I'm not sure how your pronouncing the TS in TSin-ih. I would write it as Tin-uh. This is especially true of in-un for ionainn. I would have it as un-ing or un-in.

But, if Redwolf is helping you with the pronunciation I have every confidence that it will be right for the Ulster dialect.

Some gramnmar points,



Eistigí anois, le háit na spiorad seo



le háit na sinsear seo



le háit na ndéithe seo



A Shinseara, glacaigí len*ár n-íobairt

A shinsir is singular (unless "sinsear" can be used in the collective sense like muintir)

*Intuition is telling me that the réamhfhocal "le" should be used here, I don't know why I may be wrong await further instruction. I struggle with translations because I find the languages put in on each other when your trying to think in both at the same time .



lenár?




Seo iad uiscí na beatha



Féach or Féachaigí ?

If your going to say "ar an" its going to need to be "ar an gcupán/ ar an chupán" (depending on dialect g in Munster and Connaught and ch in Ulster.



I think when Julius Caesar was conquering Gaul he wrote of the Nemeton which were made of oak.

We may get the word neamh (Old. Ir nem) i.e. Heaven and indeed the word neimheadh from the Nem in Nemeton.



na geataí



Go raibh onóir do na déithe

I would say go dtuga onóir do na déithe or go mbronna onóir ar na déithe or Go raibh onóir ar na déithe

I prefer ómós but onóir is just as correct.

either Táimid or Tá muid anseo in onóir/ómós na ndéithe or Táimid anseo chun onóir a thabhairt do na déithe

do na (does not bring about the genitive and therefore no urú is needed)

Grove can also be translated as neimheadh

Wait for others to chip in

Crossed with patchshorts

Cian

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

Thanks...you've hit on the grammar points I was unsure of (And a few I just plain missed! For some reason I cannot get my ancient brain to remember that "ar" causes an initial mutation!).

The frustrating thing is I checked "beatha" in Collins and it said it was masculine! I'm going to have a word with them...

The pronunciation I've given is mostly based on the fact that patchshorts and I have a similar dialect of English. As a West Coast U.S. English speaker if I see "TIN-eh," for example, I'm going to pronounce that first syllable if I were saying "tin whistle." The Irish "t," even when speaking English, is quite different from how we articulate it here. So I'm taking what I hear in Irish and trying to render it as closely as possible to something that would make sense to someone here.

Redwolf

@patchshorts:-

I think that should be Manannán.


A Aos Sídhe/Sí might be better. It's in frequent use to refer the fairy folk.


... a shinseara, a spiorada/spioraidí


Or Go raibh sé amhlaidh (?). Using the imperative it would be Bíodh sé amhlaidh.


Subj.: Go n-oscluightear/n-osclaítear na geataí - Go ndúntar na geataí
Imp.: Oscluightear/Osclaítear na geataí - Dúntar na geataí


...chun/le h-) onóir...


@An Cionnfhaolach:-

Would that not mean 'the place of these spirits'?


Should that be Go dtugtar & Go mbronntar ?

_________________
(SL)(GM)

That's what I thought the OP wanted? No



Yep, since we don't know whose doing the honouring.

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

The OP's English originals were:
Listen now, to this place of spirits.
Listen now to this place of elders.
Listen now to this place of gods.

The original translation, making 'spirits' definite, looks OK to me.
Éistigí anois, leis an áit seo na spiorad

To keep 'spirits' indefinite, perhaps the following would work?:
Éistigí anois, leis an áit spiorad seo.
(áit spiorad - place of spirits)

_________________
(SL)(GM)

I was reading it as "This place of spirits," i.e., this place in which spirits are accustomed to dwell.

Re: Manannan...is it? For some reason I had it in my head that The Isle of Man was "Oileán Mhanainn," but I may have hallucinated that...

Redwolf

Oiléan Mhanann. The old nom. sing. was Mana, gen. Manann & dat. Manainn. Just like Éire, -ann, -inn.
Here's a link re the God's name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manannan

_________________
(SL)(GM)