Hello

Been looking at boys names for my son. I have the name Feidhelm as my favourite but want to make sure im saying it right as fail-im ?

That woul be something like FIE -elm. If Phelim or Felim is what you want, then Féilim is correct

The "dh" you found in the middle of your version of the name may have been there in the old spelling, and may have been removed when Irish spelling was reformed in the 20th century, because it had gone silent (or, actually, it formed a diphthong with the vowel, the sound of which is now represented by the accented é). The older form may have been Feidhlim (without the accent).

The pronunciation would be much as you said: "FAY-lim" ("ay" as in "day"). Beagle was referring to how the misspelled version you gave would presumably have been pronounced. Perhaps there was also a form spelled Feidhelm, but I've never seen it.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Fedelm or Feidelm is a common first name in old Irish stories:

Conchobar's daughter was named Fedelm in Loinges Mac nUislenn (the exile of the Son's of Uisliu) see The Táin by Tomas Kinsella page 15 or Gantz's Early Irish Myths and Sagas page 263.

Also, one of the banfhili (banfhile) of the Conachtach was called Fedelm in the Táin (the one who prophesised with her imbas forasnai "I see it crimson, I see it red") (Kinsella's The Táin page 61)

Kinsella proposes pronouncing Fedelm as "Fedh - elm" (The dh as in th in "then") (pg. xxvi)

Old Irish could not lenite "m", therefore, the problem with the final "m" is it theoretically has the ability to create 2 different sounds: "m" and "mh" (similar to a vf sound in English).

It is difficult to determine which sound it is. Sometimes a double "m" i.e mm was written in Old Irish to help distinguish which one it was. This problem can be illustrated with the word "lámh" hand old Irish "Lám" but pronounced the same.

It is understood that the "m" in "Fedelm" would have been an "m" sound rather than an "mh" sound (Kinsella, pg xxv)

The "d" (strong "th" or "d" sound) of the Old Irish version would have become a guttural "dh" sound in Early Modern Irish and later a diphthong or silenced in Modern Irish, so we get Feidh(e)lm

Feidhelm Feh-elm?

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

I think that may be the female name that is now rendered in English as "Fidelma." I think they may be looking for the male name that tends to be rendered in English as "Phelim."

Redwolf

I found the name as a boys name the description was

" feidhil ”"beauty”" or “”ever good.”" Three kings of Munster bore the name. Feidhelm Mac Crimthainn was both a king of Munster and a Bishop of Cashel. He contested the sovereignty of Ireland with the O’Neill kings. He was unsuccessful in the ensuing battle and in 842 AD the annals record… “”The crosier of devout Feidhelm was abandoned in the blackthorns. Neill, mighty in combat, took it by right of victory.”" "

I do like the name and i liked the strange spelling as Feidhelm but dont want to start the poor lad off with a wrong name

Well, since you weren't sure of the pronounciation. think of how many years your son will have to listen to mispoken versions of his name. Every teacher, employer, etc for his entire life will either mispronounce it or question him as to how it's said. It's so uncommon even most Irish speakers aren't sure of it. Maybe as a middle name?

When I answered, i was just guessing, since I was at work and didn't have all of my resource materials available. According to Woulfe’s Irish Names for Children, the Irish boy's name Feidhlim is actually a shortened version of the older name Feidhlimidh, which is "an ancient Irish name, explained as meaning 'ever good' ... and [was] borne by six irish saints'. As already noted, the modern Irish spelling of Feidhlim is Féilim.



I agree, but at least with the modern spelling of Féilim, with no "dh" in it, the worst mispronunciation is likely to be as "FEE-lim", rather than "FAY-lim", and even then the Irish pronunciation would actually be somewhere in between those two (with vowel sounds which would be hard for English speakers to "hear" quite right anyway). This pronunciation problem is presumably why some people in the Anglo-American world started opting for things like Shaun instead of Seán, or Kean instead of Cian, but with Féilim there ought to be less of a problem.
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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Yeah, Fidelma or Fedelma can be the anglicised version of it alright. It seems to have a contested meaning though. According to Loretto Todd Celtic Names for Children it may be linked to feidhle "constancy" on page 42. However, wikipedia links Fedelm with ""prophetess" and to derive from the proto-Celtic stem wēd- / wid- "to know, to see"", which would be apt since Fedelm had imbas forasnai powers. Fedelm seems to be more of a female name.

The name may be linked with another common male name in Old Irish stories "Fedlimid" (Longas Mac nUislenn), as Deidre's father). Its modern cognates are according to Todd: Feidhlimidh(e), Feidhlimí, Feidhlim, Feilim, Feilimí or anglicised as Felimy, Phelim, Phelimy and according to Todd it also comes from "feidhil" meaning constancy" page 152.

The name can be found in the very common song Báidín Fheidhlimí or Báidín Fheilimí

https://www.youtube.com/results?q=b%C3% ... a=N&tab=w1

Be careful though the reason there's a "h" on the "F" after báidín is because its in the genitive, your version would just be Feidhlim with out the double "ee" sound at the end.



I understand what you are saying. However I don't agree with you, if everyone had that attitude we wouldn't have Irish language names today. Provided that the youngfella himself knows how to pronounce it and his family knows how to pronounce it properly I don't see the problem if he has to tell people how to pronounce it- if anything its a conversation starter and will make people remember him . For names to become popular somewhere people will have to use them while they are uncommon. Who knows Feidhlim(í) could be a very common name in the future. My own name "Cian" was unpopular when I was first named it, 22 years ago, now its quite a common name.

Crossed with Caoimhín

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

The reason I mentioned it is softnut is looking for a boy's name.

Redwolf