I want to write a birthday note to my father, in Irish. Can anyone help me with the translation for this:

Happy 91st birthday to my favorite Irish American!

Thanks,
Jane Harrington

Just to get us off to a start:

"Lá breithe sona do’n Ghaedheal/Ghaoidheal-Mheiriceánach (G.M Cork version) (nGaedheal/nGaoidheal-Mheiriceánach (Kerry and Ring Irish grammatical version)) is/as ansa liom d’éis/ t’réis/ tar-éis dhuit/dhó cheithre fichid is bliadhain déag do chuir slán díot/dhe"

Very Literal translation:

Happy Birthday to my favourite Irish-American after you/ he putting 3 forties and 11 years (the complexities of the traditional counting system ) safely behind you/him.

Wait for further input

Editied to fix the spelling of bliadhain

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

For the actual years (Traditional counting system ) you could also have:
cheithre fichid is haon déag de bhliantaibh (adjective)

If you wanted to say 91 healthy/fine/long years. Although Cionnfhaolach's version is perfect.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Hallo An C and An L D,

Just a quick question if I may.

Not that I have seen it that often, but the few times I have seen that counting in scores construction, the order has always been aon déag is cheithre fichid (aon deug is ceithre fichid in an old Irish grammar I found online here). However I see that you both have it the other way around - cheithre fichid is aon déag, is this a purely dialectical thing or is it a common alternative and I just haven't come across it?
Or is there yet another grammatical rule I don't know?
Oh yeah, and why, in the old spelling, is ceithre not lenited?

Thanks in advance.
MacBoo

Hi MacBoo,

Yes, usually its said bliadhain/ bliain deag is c(h)eithre fichid. But its not incorrect to have it they way I did it either, as its more of a counting phenomenon rather than a grammatical one. I think its best to change it though in lime with what's more common!

the word cheithre and chúig are often lenited in Munster for no reason other than tradition.

(Question though should it not be "bliadhain deag is cheithre fichead (i.e the genitive as its follows on after "t'réis? or am I thinking to much into it?)

So we have:

"Lá breithe sona do’n Ghaedheal/Ghaoidheal-Mheiriceánach (G.M Cork version) (nGaedheal/nGaoidheal-Mheiriceánach (Kerry and Ring Irish grammatical version)) is/as ansa liom d’éis/ t’réis/ tar-éis dhuit/dhó bliadhain déag is cheithre fichid do chuir slán díot/dhe"

I also like your suggestion Lon Dubh:

"cheithre fichid is haon déag de bhliantaibh" or haon déag is cheithre fichid de bhliadhantaibh"

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

As An Cionnfhaolach said, you can say it both ways, although haon déag is cheithre fichid would be more common.


I think that the dhuit/dó blocks the genitive, although I wouldn't bet my house on it. Even without the dó/dhuit I really haven't seen/heard enough long numbers like 91 in genitive position to say this for certain, but I think if you were to put it into the genitive only the actual noun would get inflected, since nouns are still put in the genitive after aon:

Bunanna na haon fhuinneoige dhéag is cheithre fichid The bottom of the 91 windows.

(The article respects the gender of the noun after aon (although not for dhá), dhéag lenited since it is often lenited after vowels.)

I think we should have a version of with numbers above the little guys head!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

In the interest of working towards a single intelligible translation without all of the options expressed simultaneously ( ), perhaps:

Lá breithe sona do’n Ghaedheal-Mheiriceánach is ansa liom tar éis dhó aon bhliadhain déag is cheithre fichid do chuir slán dhe. (in third person)

Lá breithe sona do’n Ghaedheal-Mheiriceánach is ansa liom tar éis dhuit aon bhliadhain déag is cheithre fichid do chuir slán díot. (in second person)

Some questions/notes:

1. I see that the tail end of the message could theoretically be either in the third person or the second. I've presented both above so that they can be compared with each other (rather than mixed together.) (Incidentally, dhuit and díot would be dhuit and dhíot in Cois Fhairrge - is díot not lenited in Munster?).

2. Where there are different old spellings, I would pick one and list other alternatives separately. Generally I would pick the most prevalent, if known. I often use one source, like Dinneen, for consistency. Others might prefer to use Peadar Ua Laoghaire's works, etc. The other alternatives can be listed separately.

3. To say "91 years" traditionally in Cois Fhairrge, they'd say aon bhliain déag is cheithre fichid "eleven years and four score" with aon bhliain déag for "eleven years", even though aon is not usually used when saying "one year, i.e, bliain is fiche "twenty-one years", bliain is cheithre fichid "eighty-one years" versus aon bhliain déag is fiche "thirty-one years", aon bhliain déag is cheithre fichid "ninety-one years".

That also applies to ordinal numbers, i.e., an chéad bhliain is fiche "the twenty-first year", but an t-aonú bliain déag is cheithre fichid "the ninety-first year". Is this different in Munster?

Normally it would be shortened to "91 bliadhain" in writing anyway, wouldn't it, even if pronounced as above?

4. Jane, to help Cian narrow down the dialect, could you tell us what part of or town in Munster your father (or his family) comes from?

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

This is so incredibly interesting to read your conversation. Thanks so much!

To answer some questions, my father's (paternal) ancestors (Harrington/Sullivan) were from the Beara peninsula. Also, this note is meant for him to read on his birthday, so it would be second person.

I'll check back and see what else you come up with. Again, thanks!
Jane

Okay. That's Béarra in West Cork.


That was my first thought in English, but I think the Irish is more grammatical in wanting to stay in the third person. That was why I gave both, so that other speakers could read each and decide for themselves. I am waiting to see what they have to say as well ...

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

From my part thanks to you all for explaining that about the numbers.
Would the score manner of counting still be in use?