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PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012 5:20 pm 
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So, a couple more questions:

Does "breeches/britches" come from "bríste," or is it the other way 'round?

How was "phoney" derived from "fáinne"? (I'm betting there's a good story there!)

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012 5:41 pm 
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Quote:
Does "breeches/britches" come from "bríste," or is it the other way 'round?


I think the words with br- that mean "trousers" come from Celtic, see bríste, Gaelic briogais, Breton bragoù, French braies (borrowed from Gaulish bragi- something)... etc

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012 5:57 pm 
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...and phoney has something to do with a typical Irish scam, passing metal rings off as real gold !


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 12:45 am 
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Seaghan wrote:
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...and phoney has something to do with a typical Irish scam, passing metal rings off as real gold !
8O Now that you mention it, my wedding ring looks remarkably like the ring from a can of beer......... 8O

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 12:51 am 
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Put the beer can down, Saoirse, you've had enough. The wedding ring is on the other hand. :toast:

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 12:52 am 
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Mick wrote:
Put the beer can down, Saoirse, you've had enough. The wedding ring is on the other hand. :toast:
Or maybe there's just a can of beer in each hand and no wedding ring at all! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 6:03 pm 
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Does Murphy's law and Kilroy was here, count ? :rolleyes:


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 3:18 am 
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Seaghan wrote:
The Scots have equal claim to some of them.

Greater, even, given that many of these are attested in written Scots literature long before they appeared in English.

Consider, for example, that "loch" appears in Scots intact, yet in Hiberno-English it became "lough" due to English spelling norms. Then look at "pibroch" and you know it has to have come to English via Scots, even before looking it up in a dictionary.

Never write a list of loanwords without checking a dictionary -- and this isn't just a question of Scottish Gaelic vs Irish, because you get the same problems with Spanish people claiming a word in English as Spanish, or Italians claiming it as Italian, when in truth it came to English via French.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 3:22 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
Does "breeches/britches" come from "bríste," or is it the other way 'round?


I think the words with br- that mean "trousers" come from Celtic, see bríste, Gaelic briogais, Breton bragoù, French braies (borrowed from Gaulish bragi- something)... etc

Now I'm not claiming it's not a Celtic root, but the fact that the Scottish Gaelic ends in -s looks pretty suspect to me.... I'm not convinced that the Scottish Gaelic isn't a borrowing of a Lowland Scots borrowing of a Goidelic or Brythonic term.

These things are anything but straightforward....

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 12:26 pm 
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It may come from "bríste" with an added -s by analogy with the English words (that are plural) that mean "trousers": trousers, pants etc... (for an English mind, trousers are a pair of things). Because Irish bríste and Scottish briogais are singular :)

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