Irish's influence on Hiberno-English

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

I'm not certain, but I think it comes from the verb beir, not iompair, as in duine a bhreith abhaile (to bear/bring someone home) or as in Beir leat abhaile! (Get gone home!" -- i.e. "bear yourself off home").

cá háit a n-abartar sin?

Quote:

Also, as for Mamaí, Irish endings in -aí (Scottish Gaelic -[a]idh) are pretty common, actually.

are they common in words that aren't borrowed from English? sin mo cheist...
The Irish diminutive endings are rather -ín, -án and -óg...
In songs you can hear "máithrín" sometimes, but I don't know if it was the Irish word for "mum" before English appeared in the Gaeltacht.

Mick · **Joined:** Fri 18 Nov 2011 2:27 pm **Posts:** 622

Has the -y suffix on English names (Micky, Johnny, Paddy) got anything to do with the -ín on Irish names (Micilín, Seánín, Páidín)?

And if so, where do the Dublin versions (Micko, Johno, Pajo) fit in? A Mhic ó, a Sheáin ó, a Pháid ó maybe?

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

Has the -y suffix on English names (Micky, Johnny, Paddy) got anything to do with the -ín on Irish names (Micilín, Seánín, Páidín)?

I don't think so, n's don't disappear like that. And German and other Germanic languages also use the -y (written -i) as a diminutive, while no Celtic language does that... that's why I say it's a Germanic thing.
"Mum" is "Mutti" in German (from "Mutter" = mother + the diminutive -i)
"Dad" is "Vati" (Vater + -i)
Rudolf is Rudi with a diminutive
etc, with many words and first names.

Mick · **Joined:** Fri 18 Nov 2011 2:27 pm **Posts:** 622

It's good to have a linguist around for these questions.

Bríd Mhór · **Joined:** Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm **Posts:** 2985

Lughaidh wrote:

Quote:

Also, as for Mamaí, Irish endings in -aí (Scottish Gaelic -[a]idh) are pretty common, actually.

are they common in words that aren't borrowed from English? sin mo cheist...
The Irish diminutive endings are rather -ín, -án and -óg...
In songs you can hear "máithrín" sometimes, but I don't know if it was the Irish word for "mum" before English appeared in the Gaeltacht.

I agree.
Not positive but I think the older forms would be "a athair/ a mháthair/ a mháithrín/ mo mháithrín". But "Daide/Mama/Mam" are traditional now too.
"Mamaí" most likely comes from the Hiberno-English "Mammy" which originally came from the Irish "Mam".

Mick wrote:

Has the -y suffix on English names (Micky, Johnny, Paddy) got anything to do with the -ín on Irish names (Micilín, Seánín, Páidín)?

And if so, where do the Dublin versions (Micko, Johno, Pajo) fit in? A Mhic ó, a Sheáin ó, a Pháid ó maybe?

The Y in English corresponds with the "ín" in Irish.

I'm guessing (I could be totally wrong) that the Micko/Johno, etc come from the following surname. Mick O 'Neill, becomes Micko/ John Ó Sé, becomes Johno.

Not all names ending in "ín" are diminutives. For example Máirtín and Oisín.
I know a man from Conamara who lived in North Mayo. And he had a hard job convincing the locals to call him "Máirtín" as they looked on it as a diminutive and as a result insulting.

Mick · **Joined:** Fri 18 Nov 2011 2:27 pm **Posts:** 622

Bríd Mhór wrote:

I know a man from Conamara who lived in North Mayo. And he had a hard job convincing the locals to call him "Máirtín" as they looked on it as a diminutive and as a result insulting.

What did they call him? A Mháirt (Tuesday)?

Bríd Mhór · **Joined:** Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm **Posts:** 2985

Mick wrote:

Bríd Mhór wrote:

I know a man from Conamara who lived in North Mayo. And he had a hard job convincing the locals to call him "Máirtín" as they looked on it as a diminutive and as a result insulting.

What did they call him? A Mháirt (Tuesday)?

In English - Martin.
But he got them convinced eventually to use Máirtín.

Saoirse · **Posted:** Mon 31 Dec 2012 5:01 pm

Saoirse wrote:

Errigal wrote:

In indirect questions (I think that's what they're called):

Standard: He asked me if/whether I knew her./I want to know if you'll come
Hiberno: He asked me did I know her./I want to know will you come

Are your Hiberno examples not just bad grammar?

Edited to add that I have just realised that that doesn't mean they are not examples of the influence of Irish on English in Ireland!

Lughaidh wrote:

if it's considered correct in one native dialect, then it's correct in that dialect - but of course it's wrong in standard English. But it's not wrong in the absolute.

I don't think it is correct to use that in Ireland; I think it is just considered a grammar mistake.

Saoirse · **Posted:** Mon 31 Dec 2012 5:03 pm

CaoimhínSF wrote:

After parties in college, we always "carried" our dates home to their dorms....

Were they always that drunk! :twisted:

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

Not all names ending in "ín" are diminutives. For example Máirtín and Oisín.
I know a man from Conamara who lived in North Mayo. And he had a hard job convincing the locals to call him "Máirtín" as they looked on it as a diminutive and as a result insulting.

that's right, the -ín in Máirtín is no diminutive, the name comes from French "Martin".
Oisín comes from the common noun oisín which means "small deer", from an old word "os" that meant "deer" (same Indo-European root as English "ox"). So there's a diminutive ending in oisín but it was there before it was used as a first name

Quote:

I don't think it is correct to use that in Ireland; I think it is just considered a grammar mistake.

it depends. The people who said that, would they say it twice? Did they consider it as normal in their own dialect? Or would they correct themselves? Because it might be wrong in Belfast Irish but right in Dublin Irish, or even in "smaller dialects" than that.

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