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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 1:21 am 
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A lot of the official titles to do with politics and the state are in Irish. Nobody in Ireland says Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister or Speaker of the House. It's always Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Ceann Comhairle. Also, we always say Dáil Éireann or the Dáil, we never call it the Assembly.

Oddly enough, we still use the English words President and Senate (though Seanad is more common). We rarely say police, it's usually the Gardaí or the Guards in English.

I recently found out that Éire is the official name of the state in both languages. The term Republic of Ireland has no official status (unless you're talking about the soccer team).

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 9:03 pm 
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In indirect questions (I think that's what they're called):

Standard: He asked me if/whether I knew her./I want to know if you'll come
Hiberno: He asked me did I know her./I want to know will you come


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 9:04 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
In indirect questions (I think that's what they're called):

Standard: He asked me if/whether I knew her./I want to know if you'll come
Hiberno: He asked me did I know her./I want to know will you come
Are your Hiberno examples not just bad grammar?

Edited to add that I have just realised that that doesn't mean they are not examples of the influence of Irish on English in Ireland!

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 11:29 pm 
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Quote:
Are your Hiberno examples not just bad grammar?


if it's considered correct in one native dialect, then it's correct in that dialect - but of course it's wrong in standard English. But it's not wrong in the absolute.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012 11:52 pm 
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Quote:
chun féachaint an bhféadfainn aon mhaitheas a tharraigt as an ndíobháil "to see if I could take any goodness from the mess.


This one made its way to Southern [US] English, though probably from Scottish Gaelic, as filtered into the speech of early Scots-Irish immigrants, some of whom would have been only a generation or two removed from speaking Gaelic: "I'm gonna see, can I do that" or "He don't know, is it there or not", which retain the original Irish/Gaelic syntax with what are essentially two sentences run together, the second one being a question.

And, of course, there are other "Southernisms" of Gaelic origin: "There's not but three of them there" (Níl ach trí acu ann), and words like Mammy and Daddy.

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 1:18 am 
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Quote:
words like Mammy and Daddy.


these come from Irish? Isn't it the other way round? Using -y / -í as a diminutive ending is very Germanic and not Celtic, in my opinion... Btw when Irish native speakers say Daidí they pronounce it exactly as the English Daddy (with the same English d-sound that doesn't exist in Irish except in words borrowed from English)...

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 1:47 am 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
chun féachaint an bhféadfainn aon mhaitheas a tharraigt as an ndíobháil "to see if I could take any goodness from the mess.


This one made its way to Southern [US] English, though probably from Scottish Gaelic, as filtered into the speech of early Scots-Irish immigrants, some of whom would have been only a generation or two removed from speaking Gaelic: "I'm gonna see, can I do that" or "He don't know, is it there or not", which retain the original Irish/Gaelic syntax with what are essentially two sentences run together, the second one being a question.

And, of course, there are other "Southernisms" of Gaelic origin: "There's not but three of them there" (Níl ach trí acu ann), and words like Mammy and Daddy.


If I'm not mistaken, the Southernism "carry" to mean "take" (as in "Carry me back to Old Virginny") is also of Gaelic origin. In North Carolina, you'll still hear people saying things like "Will I carry you to church on Sunday?"

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 2:03 am 
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But "carry" is "iompar" in Irish, but in Irish you rather use "tabhair" to say you take someone somewhere, so it would be a Gaelicism if it were "I will give you there", wouldn't it be?
I don't see what Irish expression "carry someone somewhere" could have copied... do you know?

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 2:05 am 
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Yes, "carry" is another one. After parties in college, we always "carried" our dates home to their dorms by car).

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PostPosted: Mon 31 Dec 2012 2:17 am 
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Quote:
But "carry" is "iompar" in Irish, but in Irish you rather use "tabhair" to say you take someone somewhere, so it would be a Gaelicism if it were "I will give you there", wouldn't it be?
I don't see what Irish expression "carry someone somewhere" could have copied... do you know?


I'm not certain, but I think it comes from the verb beir, not iompair, as in duine a bhreith abhaile (to bear/bring someone home) or as in Beir leat abhaile! (Get gone home!" -- i.e. "bear yourself off home").

Also, as for Mamaí, Irish endings in - (Scottish Gaelic -[a]idh) are pretty common, actually.

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